Roger,

To say that a connection is based on logic is a category error.

More specifically,
I conjecture that the connection in the brain between the physical brain
and the (computational?) mind/monads is based on BEC entanglement.
BEC stands for Bose-Einstein Condensate.

It has been demonstrated experimentally that BECs made of different substances
can become entangled. I claim based on string theory that the monads
are a BEC since they came from space. They are compactified space,
crystalline in form and essentially motionless. Presumably there is
also a physical BEC in the brain.

So if my conjecture is correct, that disparate BECs, even the monad
BEC is substantive,
are capable of entanglement, which of course is all logical, then the
connection is based on entanglement. To say that a connection is based
on logic is a category error.
Richard


On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 8:29 AM, Roger Clough <rclo...@verizon.net> wrote:
> Hi Richard Ruquist
>
>
> Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net
> 10/10/2012
> "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen
>
>
>
> ----- Receiving the following content -----
> From: Richard Ruquist
> Receiver: everything-list
> Time: 2012-10-09, 08:25:10
> Subject: Re: more firewalls
>
> Hi Roger,
> What makes you think that what you claim is true?
> Richard
>
> On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 8:19 AM, Roger Clough <rclo...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> Hi Richard Ruquist
>>
>> Nature has put a firewall between subjective entities such as monads
>> and objective entities such as BECs or the manifolds.
>> When I said "attached" I should have said "associated to".
>> There's no physical, only logical connections.
>>
>> Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net
>> 10/9/2012
>> "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen
>>
>>
>> ----- Receiving the following content -----
>> From: Richard Ruquist
>> Receiver: everything-list
>> Time: 2012-10-08, 12:35:34
>> Subject: Re: Re: Can computers be conscious ? Re: Zombieopolis
>> ThoughtExperiment
>>
>>
>> Roger,
>> Monads are everywhere, inside computers
>> as well as humans, rocks and free space.
>> Whatever allows monads to connect to physical objects
>> may be operative for inanimates as well as animates.
>>
>> So the first step is to identify the connecting mechanism.
>>
>> For physical consciousness I conjecture the connection
>> is based on BECs (Bose-Einstein Condensates)
>> in the monadic mind entangled with BECs in the brain.
>>
>> It has been demonstrated experimentally
>> that BECs of disparate substances can still be entangled.
>> So once a computer is designed with BECs as in the human brain
>> then it may be capable of consciousness.
>> Richard
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 8, 2012 at 9:25 AM, Roger Clough wrote:
>>> Hi Richard Ruquist
>>>
>>> I may have given that impression, sorry, but
>>> a monad can only make what's "inside" do what it can do.
>>>
>>> Human and animal monads can both feel, so they can be conscious.
>>> But a rock is at best unconscious as it cannot feel or think.\
>>>
>>> There's no way to tell what faculties a computer has.
>>>
>>> Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net
>>> 10/8/2012
>>> "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Receiving the following content -----
>>> From: Richard Ruquist
>>> Receiver: everything-list
>>> Time: 2012-10-07, 11:06:17
>>> Subject: Re: Can computers be conscious ? Re: Zombieopolis Thought
>>> Experiment
>>>
>>>
>>> Roger,
>>>
>>> If human consciousness comes from attached monads, as I think you have
>>> claimed,
>>> then why could not these monads attach to sufficiently complex computers
>>> as well.
>>> Richard
>>>
>>> On Sun, Oct 7, 2012 at 8:17 AM, Roger Clough wrote:
>>>> Hi John Clark
>>>>
>>>> Unless computers can deal with inextended objects such as
>>>> mind and experience, they cannot be conscious.
>>>>
>>>> Consciousness is direct experience, computers can only deal in
>>>> descriptions of experience.
>>>>
>>>> Everything that a computer does is, to my knowledge, at least
>>>> in principle publicly available, since it uses publicly available
>>>> symbols or code.
>>>>
>>>> Consciousness is direct experience, which cannot be put down in code
>>>> any more than life can be put down in code. It is personal and not
>>>> publicly available.
>>>>
>>>> Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net
>>>> 10/7/2012
>>>> "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Receiving the following content -----
>>>> From: John Clark
>>>> Receiver: everything-list
>>>> Time: 2012-10-06, 13:56:30
>>>> Subject: Re: Zombieopolis Thought Experiment
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 6:29 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ?>>I'm openly saying that a high school kid can make a robot that
>>>> behaves sensibly with just a few transistors.? ?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Only because he lives in a universe in which the possibility of
>>>>> teleology is fully supported from the start.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We know with absolute certainty that the laws of physics in this
>>>> universe allow for the creation of consciousness, we may not know how they
>>>> do it but we know for a fact that it can be done. So how on Earth does that
>>>> indicate that a conscious computer is not possible? Because it doesn't
>>>> fart??
>>>>
>>>> ?
>>>>> you have erroneously assumed that intelligence is possible without
>>>>> sense experience.
>>>>
>>>> No, I am assuming the exact OPPOSITE! In fact I'm not even assuming, I
>>>> know for a fact that intelligent behavior WITHOUT consciousness confers a
>>>> Evolutionary advantage, and I know for a fact that intelligent behavior 
>>>> WITH
>>>> consciousness confers no additional Evolutionary advantage (and if you
>>>> disagree with that point then you must believe that the Turing Test works
>>>> for consciousness too and not just intelligence). And in spite of all this 
>>>> I
>>>> know for a fact that Evolution DID produce consciousness at least once,
>>>> therefore the only conclusion is that consciousness is a byproduct of
>>>> intellagence.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Adenine and Thymine don't have purpose in seeking to bind with each
>>>>> other?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I don't even know what a question like that means, who's purpose do you
>>>> expect Adenine and Thymine to serve?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> How do you know?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I know because I have intelligence and Adenine and Thymine do not know
>>>> because they have none, they only have cause and effect.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> How is it different from our purpose in staying in close proximity to
>>>>> places to eat and sleep?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> And to think that some people berated me for anthropomorphizing future
>>>> supercomputers and here you are ? anthropomorphizing simple chemicals.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> Why is everything aware, why isn't everything not aware?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Because then we wouldn't be aware of having this conversation.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> And we are aware of having this conversation because everything is
>>>> aware, except of course for computers.
>>>> ?
>>>>
>>>>>> Robots are something?
>>>>
>>>>> No, they aren't something.
>>>>
>>>> That is just a little too silly to argue.
>>>>
>>>> ?
>>>>
>>>>> Everything is awareness
>>>>
>>>> Are you certain, I thought everything is klogknee, or maybe its
>>>> everything is 42.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> evolution requires that something be alive to begin with.
>>>>
>>>> Evolution requires something that can reproduce itself, there is no
>>>> universally agreed on definition of "life" so if you want to say that
>>>> viruses and RNA strings and crystals and clay patterns and Von Neumann
>>>> Machines are alive I won't argue with you and will agree that Evolution
>>>> requires that something be alive to get started.
>>>>
>>>> ? John K Clark
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ?
>>>>
>>>>
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