Hi Craig Weinberg  

Consciousness had to arise before language.
Apes are conscious.


Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 
10/9/2012  
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen 


----- Receiving the following content -----  
From: Craig Weinberg  
Receiver: everything-list  
Time: 2012-10-08, 14:23:18 
Subject: Re: Zombieopolis Thought Experiment 




On Monday, October 8, 2012 1:35:31 PM UTC-4, Brent wrote: 
On 10/8/2012 8:42 AM, John Clark wrote:  
2) Intelligent behavior is NOT associated with subjective experience, in which 
case there is no reason for Evolution to produce consciousness and I have no 
explanation for why I am here, and I have reason to believe that I am the only 
conscious being in the universe. 

There's a third possibility: Intelligent behavior is sometimes associated with 
subjective experience and sometimes not.  Evolution may have produced 
consciousness as a spandrel, an accident of the particular developmental path 
that evolution happened upon.  Or it may be that consciousness is necessarily 
associated with only certain kinds of intelligent behavior, e.g. those related 
to language. 


You are almost right but have it upside down. When someone gets knocked 
unconscious, can they continue to behave intelligently? Can a baby wake up from 
a nap and become conscious before they learn language?  

What would lead us to presume that consciousness itself could supervene on 
intelligence except if we were holding on to a functionalist metaphysics? 

Clearly human intelligence in each individual supervenes on their consciousness 
and clearly supercomputers can't feel any pain or show any signs of fatigue 
that would suggest a state of physical awareness despite their appearances of 
'intelligence'. 

If you flip it over though, you are right. Everything is conscious to some 
extent, but not everything is intelligent in a cognitive sense. The assumption 
of strong AI is that we can take the low hanging fruit of primitive 
consciousness and attach it to the tree tops of anthropological quality 
intelligence and it will grow a new tree into outer space. 

Craig 




Bretn 

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