On 16 Oct 2012, at 21:55, John Mikes wrote:

Bruno:
corn starch is not a fluid (newtinian or not). It is a solid and when dissolved in water (or whatever?) it makes a N.N.fluid --------- My question about it's 'live, or not' status is:
does it provide METABOLISM  and  REPAIR ?????
I doubt it.
Do not misunderstand me, please: this is not my word about :"LIFE" it pertains to the LIVE STATUS (process) which - according to Robert Rosen's brilliant distinction - shows a relying upon environmental (material??) support for its substinence (called metabolism) and a mechanism to repair damages that occur in the process of being alive.

I can use such provisory definition of carbon-based life. But I can conceive other form of life. And for life, I am large, it includes anything which adds and multiplies, basically.



Minds with chemistry impediment look differently at things.

Certainly. I hope you didn't believe I meant those Non Newtonian things as being alive. They just *look*, to me, as amazingly alive, only. They are baby zombies (joke).

Bruno




John M

PS: I could not enjoy the video in the URL: I got a warning to close it down because it slows down my browser (to 0).J

On Sat, Oct 13, 2012 at 5:10 PM, Craig Weinberg <whatsons...@gmail.com> wrote:


On Friday, October 12, 2012 10:23:57 AM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote:

On 12 Oct 2012, at 14:50, Craig Weinberg wrote:

> They are certainly cool looking and biomorphic. The question I have
> is, at what point do they begin to have experiences...or do you
> think that those blobs have experiences already?
>
> Would it give them more of a human experience if an oscillating
> smiley-face/frowny-face algorithm were added graphically into the
> center of each blob?


Here is a  "deterministic" simple phenomenon looking amazingly
"alive" (non-newtonian fluid):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zoTKXXNQIU

Is it alive? That question does not make sense for me. Yes with some
definition, no with other one. Unlike consciousness or intelligence
"life" is not a definite concept for me. I use usually the definition
"has a reproductive cycle". But this makes cigarettes and stars alive.
No problem for me.

Bruno

"The good news is, after this operation you'll be every bit as alive as a cigarette is".

There are some cool videos out there of cymatic animation like that. All that it really tells me is that there are a limited number of morphological themes in the universe, not that those themes are positively linked to any particular private phenomenology. They are producing those patterns with a particular acoustic signal, but we could model it mathematically and see the same pattern on a video screen without any acoustic signal at all. Same thing happens when we model the behaviors of a conscious mind. It looks similar from a distance, but that's all.

Craig




http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/




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