Brent, I think if a 'model' is *complete*, it is not a model, it is the
real thing.
Consequently it (as the real thing) is not provable from within - Godel, or
not. (dON'T ASK ME ABOUT "real", please <G>)
JM

On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 2:21 PM, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote:

> On 10/29/2012 10:21 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote:
>
>> Some more quotes from From Scientific Representation: Paradoxes of
>> Perspective by Bas C Van Fraassen.
>> ......(quot4s deleted)
>
> If the model is complete it must already include us - as well as what we
> will think about it and do with it.  But then this will run into Godelian
> incompleteness.  If it is true it will be unprovable within the model.
>
> Brent
>
>
>  So apparently we need to have something in addition to what science has
>> given us here. The extra is the self-ascription of location."
>>
>> p. 83 "Have we now landed in a dilemma for our view of science as
>> paradigmatically objective? If we say that the self-ascription is a simple,
>> objective statement of fact, then science is inevitably doomed to be
>> objectively incomplete. If instead we say it is something irreducibly
>> subjective, then we have also admitted a limit to objectivity, we have let
>> subjectivity into science."
>>
>> Evgenii
>> --
>> http://blog.rudnyi.ru/tag/bas-**c-van-fraassen<http://blog.rudnyi.ru/tag/bas-c-van-fraassen>
>>
>>
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