Hi Stephen P. King  

Depending on the existence of others is fine but incomplete. 
A flood does not depend on the existence of others,
it's just contingent on too much rain. And not enough time
passed by for the flood to drain down. Come back in a
month and the flood's gone. So time is important,
as well as immediate context.

Note that this follows Kant's definitions of existence:
consisting of two joined factors: time for when an event
occurs, and space (context) for what happens. By
themselves neither one is a substance.

Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen 

----- Receiving the following content -----  
From: Stephen P. King  
Receiver: everything-list  
Time: 2012-11-04, 12:24:05 
Subject: Re: Why religious truth is the highest truth 

On 11/4/2012 8:10 AM, Roger Clough wrote: 

Hi Stephen P. King  

Necessary truths can't be contingent, because contingent  
truths by definition are contingent on circumstances  
and so may not always be true. Scientific truth, or 
any truth of this world, is such.  

Dear Roger, 

    By contingent I mean dependent on the co-existence of others. Existence 
cannot be dependent on anything at all, thus is must be taken in our 
explanations to be ontologically fundamental. 

Pierce taught that consensus or pragmatic truth is  
supreme. What people believe in their hearts,  
what they believe subjectively. What they experience now.  

    I love Peirce's cryptic sense of irony. ;--)  

Why is pragmatic truth supreme ? Even higher than 
a necessary truth? 1 + 1 = 2, a statement,  
is a necessary truith, but the higher truth is to  
know that 1 +1 =2, to personally accept and believe that.  
If many agree, that is even better.  

    Can we reason outside of our explanations? Can we discuss the content of 
our discussions? Can we escape from the implications of regress? 

If many, such as the Christian church, accept  
a truth such as "God created the world", you 
might want to consider it. But it is only true 
if you pragmatically accept it as true. Lutherans 
call that acceptance "faith". 

    So what about what the Hyperboreans call that acceptance? And what of the 
Ponies or the Mormons or the Blue People? Does it matter who it is? 

There are many forms of truth-- necessary and contingent 
truths, subjective and objective truths, truths by 
correspondence, or through coherency, pragmatic 
truth, eye witness truth, and so forth. In the end, one accepts 
the truth he has the most faith in. So faith 
again rules.  

    Of course, because what is faith but the expectation of a future truth? 

Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net  
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen  

----- Receiving the following content -----  
From: Stephen P. King  
Receiver: everything-list  
Time: 2012-11-03, 13:31:14  
Subject: Re: Emergence of Properties  

On 11/3/2012 8:57 AM, Roger Clough wrote:  

The properties of spacetime things are what can be measured (ie facts).  
The properties of beyond spacetime things are propositions that can't be 
contradicted (necessary truths).  

Hi Roger,  

    I do not assume that the "can't be contradicted" is an a priori fixed 
apartheid on truths. I define necessary truths to be contingent on many minds 
in agreement.  



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