Hi Craig Weinberg 

I can't disagree.

[Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net]
11/23/2012 
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen

----- Receiving the following content ----- 
From: Craig Weinberg 
Receiver: everything-list 
Time: 2012-11-23, 10:40:39
Subject: Re: Re: imagination




On Friday, November 23, 2012 7:35:09 AM UTC-5, rclough wrote:
Hi Craig Weinberg 

Yes,intuition comes from Platonia, whereas 
a dream might come from a bad choice of food,
or a nasty comment somebody made.

Intuition brings in something new and presumably
good and rational, but with a dream you are often only
forced into a fruitless search for a solution
to your discomfort, grasping at irrational
straws. At least that's my experience.

I think this is too simplistic of a view of what is really going on. Within a 
dream you can have intuition also. You can arguably have every kind of 
experience in a dream that you can have while you are awake (though some 
categories of experience are uncommon). Indeed only actually waking up provides 
a vantage point from which the unreality of a dream can be clearly seen.

We were talking about imagination though, which implies the capacity to 
consciously direct inner experience while intuition is decidedly undirected by 
the conscious mind. Your distinction makes some sense on the surface, as far as 
there is a notion of truthfulness to the contents of intuition which is not 
necessarily present in imagination, however there is no question in my mind 
that while great evil has been done in the service of dreams and false 
promises, they are generally served by intuition just as well, with brutal 
dictators and psychotic killers often guided by an extraordinarily intuitive 
gift for military and political strategy. The logic of a sociopath is a form of 
intuition, whereas intuition is not a form of logic.




[Roger Clough], [rcl...@verizon.net]
11/23/2012 
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen

----- Receiving the following content ----- 
From: Craig Weinberg 
Receiver: everything-list 
Time: 2012-11-23, 08:11:42
Subject: Re: imagination




On Friday, November 23, 2012 4:23:49 AM UTC-5, rclough wrote: 
Hi Bruno Marchal 

1) I suspect that when you refer to imagination, it is the
same as what I call intuition.  They're related, but I don't 
think they're exactly the same. I see intuition as coming
from Platonia and spreading wider than the individual to
all possible solutions. In essence, you do not imagine these
solutions, they become evident to you.

Imagination and intuition are different.

Imagine a blue chair. Works right?

Have an intuition that someone is going to ring your doorbell. Didn't work, did 
it? You can't make yourself have an intuition, intuition comes to you unbidden 
from beyond your conscious attention. Imagination produces results in the form 
of images and other ideal gestalts, both voluntarily and involuntarily, just as 
we can choose to control our breathing to some extent or allow it to happen 
outside of our conscious attention.



2) Maybe I misundertand you, but I especially don't see how the machine,  
has any advantage over the person with regard to 1p. As I see it,
1p is a blind spot, machine or person. Godel holds for both a
person and a machine. 


1p is only a blind spot from a 3p perspective. Everything that has every been 
experienced is only 1p as far as we know. This is actually one of the main 
points where my model improves the conventional understanding. Neither 1p nor 
3p can be proved against the other. The more relevant dichotomy is between 
spatially extended public exterior sense and temporally intended private 
interior sense. Both are really 1p, but the former faces a 3p which may or may 
not be primitively 'real'.

Craig
 



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