On 10 Dec 2012, at 19:03, Richard Ruquist wrote:

On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 11:42 AM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:
Richard,

On 10 Dec 2012, at 16:17, Richard Ruquist wrote:

Roger Bruno,
How is consciousness related to god?
It seems like the beginning of an infinite god regression.


God = Truth (Plato). OK? With the CTM, arithmetical truth is enough (and a
tiny provable part is enough for the ontology).

I would say that consciousness is a form of knowledge.
Knowledge intersects belief and truth. (It is a private undefinable notion,
with CTM).
The knower in you is the "inner God", which is God restricted by the
universal window of your brain/body.

I don't know if God (truth) is conscious, but without God (truth) I doubt I could be conscious, even if most of the content of my consciousness is wrong (except on the indubitable fixed point, and perhaops the sharablke oart of
math, arithmetic, perhaps).

I have no certainties, and that is why I use the arithmetical translation of
Plotinus in such conversation, with
God = Arithmetical Truth
Believable = (sigma_1) provable = universal (Löbian) machine
Knowable = the same, but true (unlike proved) = the inner god = the
universal soul
intelligible matter = the same as 'believable", but together with
consistence
sensible matter = the same as intelligible matter, but as true

That gives eight modalities, as they divided by incompleteness (except God
and the Soul).

If Gödel's incompleteness theorem was wrong, all those modalities would collapse. Despite the modalities extension is the same set of arithmetical propositions, the machine cannot knows that, and this change drastically the
logic of the modalities.
Roughly speaking, "God" obeys classical logic, the "Universal Soul" obeys intuitionist logic, and the two matters obeys (different) quantum logics,
perhaps even linear (with some luck!)

Bruno, thanks. That helps alot.
In case you have not already guessed I am trying to marry CTM, string
theory and monadology/Indra'sJewels, in order to improve my paper on
incompletenes/consciousness: http://vixra.org/pdf/1101.0044v1.pdf

This will work only if you derived the axioms of string theory from arithmetic, unless your theory contradicts the comp or CTM theory.

I am not sure why you single out Peano Arithmetic in your paper. Logician use Peano Arithmetic like biologist use the bacterium Escherichia Coli, as a good represent of a very simple Löbian theory.

Gödel used Principia Mathematica, and then a theory like PA can be shown essentially undecidable: adding axioms does not change incompleteness. That is why it applies to us, as far as we are correct. It does not apply to everyday reasoning, as this use a non monotonical theory, with a notion of updating our beliefs.

Not all undecidable theory are essentially undecidable. Group theory is undecidable, but abelian group theory is decidable.

Bruno






Richard

On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 9:56 AM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:


On 10 Dec 2012, at 14:33, Roger Clough wrote:

Hi Stephen P. King

God is what/who is looking through the supreme monad,
not the supreme monad itself.


Nice!

Even closer to CTM(*):

God is what/who is looking through the supreme monads,
not any supreme monad itself.

Bruno




(*) Alias comp, digital mechanism, .... CTM is for Computationalist
Theory
of Mind, and the "yes doctor" + Church thesis is among the weakest
assumptions. CTM acronym might be better than "comp" to avoid confusion
with
computationalist physicalism (digital physics, DP) which is sometimes
confused with comp. I have often explain why Digital Physics is
self-contradictory (or made us into zombie, eliminate consciousness and
first person).






[Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net]
12/10/2012
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen


----- Receiving the following content -----
From: Stephen P. King
Receiver: everything-list
Time: 2012-12-09, 13:05:26
Subject: Re: Avoiding the use of the word God

On 12/9/2012 7:54 AM, Richard Ruquist wrote:

Roger,
The monads are collectively god


Dear Roger and Richard,

This is what I have come to believe about Monads as well. They are collectively God, they do not have an absolute hierarchy. Their relation
is more like what we see in a neural network

That's is likely what Newton would believe
and most likely what Liebnitz really believed in
but was afraid to express.
Richard

On Sun, Dec 9, 2012 at 7:43 AM, Roger Clough <rclo...@verizon.net>
wrote:

Hi Richard Ruquist

Newton believed in numbers but was still a christian.

[Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net]
12/9/2012
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen




--
Onward!

Stephen


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