On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 10:29 AM, Roger Clough <rclo...@verizon.net> wrote: > Hi Alberto G. Corona > > > I'll leave QM up to the physicists. As for myself, > I'm trying to understand the status of being of quanta.

Quanta are particles like the electron or photon. > > Let us assume that every atom be a physical body > and its quantum [field] the corresponding mental or > nonphysical representation. Then the quanta are monads. Yes. Monads are particles. > But monads of a specific type. Ordinary corporeal bodies have > simultaneously existing [composite] monads, When Roger speaks of monads he usually means Leibniz composite monads >but the situation regarding > atoms is contingent. Either the atom is physical > or it is monadic, but not both at the same time. I get the picture. Both physical Particles and Monads Came(simultaneously) from the Big Bang,. in a Mind/Body Duality, Mathematically Connected according to Pratt. I conjecture the duality to be BEC connected as well.. > > Obviously there is some mechanism of a contingent > type that causes the quantum wave to collapse. > This could be a collision of the wave with an object, > or some random interference. But it does not require > the creation of a complete universe, which would > be unecessary as the situation is complete in itself. > I conjecture that the quantum mind is instantaneous. If so, then all mathematical future possible quantum states are known just like in MWI except in the quantum mind. >From our perspective all the possibilities are like so many possible thoughts as thoughts are seemingly instant. Information from OBE studies appear to support this claim. > > > [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] > 1/16/2013 > "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen > ----- Receiving the following content ----- > From: Alberto G. Corona > Receiver: everything-list > Time: 2013-01-16, 09:30:24 > Subject: Re: Re: the curse of materialism > > > This is the best ? introduction to quantum mechanics: > > > https://www.google.es/search?q=susskind+quantum+mechanics&aq=f&oq=susskind+quantum+mechanics&aqs=chrome.0.57j0l3.11316&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 > > > > disclaimer: I have not seen it. but I saw some other lectures of this series > "the theoretical minimum" ?rom Leonard Susskind and they are awersome. > > > > > The laws of physics are experimental, and experimental is a form of ad hoc. > The Schrodinger equation was made ad hoc to match the experimental results. > In the same way, ?elativity: so Michelson did not found any anisotropy in the > speed of light? let's make c constant, an see what happens in the equations". > > So they lack interpretation. the interpretation is post hoc. But if we have > not a innate intuition of concepts that can help, there is no possible > understanding of them. ?he newtonian laws can be "understood" because our > innate notion of phisics is aristotelian, ?nd includes ?he fundamental > elements: euclidean 3D geometry, bodies, forces etc. But ?uantum mechanics > and relativity can only be -partially- understood intuitively by making > partial analogies with innate objects of our intuition.? I think we should approach interpretation from the notions of completeness and incompleteness. Quantum physics is incomplete and therefore requires interpretation. The interpretation being an addition of the essential ingredient that completes the physics. Quantum collapse is such a completion but lacks physical theory. Multiverse creation is another such completion that is Occam superior and apparently valid on the basis of arithmetic computation theory.. My favorite set of completians are time removal and instantaneous mind/body duality within Feynmanian mechanics. > > > > 2013/1/16 Roger Clough > > Hi socra...@bezeqint.net > > Feymann has passed on. He was the one who said that > if you think you understand QM, you don't. ?thers have said similar. > > Here's what Wikipedia has to say: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_formulations_of_quantum_mechanics > > "The mathematical formulations of quantum mechanics are those mathematical > formalisms that > permit a rigorous description of quantum mechanics. Such are distinguished > from mathematical formalisms > for theories developed prior to the early 1900s by the use of abstract > mathematical structures, such as > infinite-dimensional Hilbert spaces and operators on these spaces. Many of > these structures are drawn from > functional analysis, a research area within pure mathematics that was > influenced in part by the needs of quantum mechanics. > In brief, values of physical observables such as energy and momentum were no > longer considered as values of > functions on phase space, but as eigenvalues; more precisely: as spectral > values (point spectrum plus absolute > continuous plus singular continuous spectrum) of linear operators in Hilbert > space.[1]" > > I am not able to understand that. > > The Quantum Mind is a Hilbert space > > > [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] > > 1/16/2013 > "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen > ----- Receiving the following content ----- > > From: socra...@bezeqint.net > Receiver: Everything List > > Time: 2013-01-16, 07:38:37 > Subject: Re: the curse of materialism > > > > The Newtonian world cannot exist without Quantum world > and vice versa. > We cannot separate the Quantum theory from Classical theory, > the Quantum world from Newtonian material world. > The quantum world as real as the physical matter world and > we need understand and celebrate their unity. > Where is problem ? > > The problem is, that we don? know how to unite them together. > Why ? > Because we don? know what Quantum world is and it is almost > impossible for us to believe that It can be Aristotle? metaphysical > > world. > Where is the key to solving this problem ? > > The key has name. Its name is ? Quantum of Light?. > ==. > P.S. > > ?? All these fifty years of conscious brooding have brought me > ?o nearer to the answer to the question, 'What are light quanta?' > Nowadays every Tom, Dick and Harry thinks he knows it, > > ?ut he is mistaken. ? > ? ? ?/ Einstein / > ===.. > > > > On Jan 16, 11:01?m, "Roger Clough" wrote: >> Hi socra...@bezeqint.net >> >> You want to know why nobody understands QM ? >> Because QM is nonphysical, but is treated as being physical. >> This might be called the curse of materialism. >> >> [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] >> 1/16/2013 >> "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen >> ----- Receiving the following content ----- >> From: socra...@bezeqint.net >> Receiver: Everything List >> Time: 2013-01-15, 11:20:20 >> Subject: Re: Science is a religion by itself. >> >> Physics and Metaphysics. >> >> John Polkinghorne and his book ? Quantum >> theory?.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Polkinghorne >> === . >> >> John Polkinghorne took epigraph for his book ? Quantum theory? >> the Feynman? thought : ? I think I can safely say that >> nobody understands quantum mechanics. ? >> Why?Because, he wrote: >> >> ? ,we do not understand the theory as fully as we should. >> We shall see in what follows that important interpretative >> issues remain unresolved. They will demand for their >> eventual settlement not only physical insight but also >> metaphysical decision ?. >> / preface/ >> ? Serious interpretative problems remain unresolved, >> and these are the subject of continuing dispute? >> / page 40/ >> ? If the study of quantum physics teaches one anything, >> it is that the world is full of surprises? >> / page 87 / >> ? Metaphysical criteria that the scientific community take >> very seriously in assessing the weight to put on a theory >> include: . . . .? >> / page 88 / >> ?uantum theory is certainly strange and surprising, . . .? >> / page92 / >> ? Wave / particle duality is a highly surprising and >> instructive phenomenon, . .? >> / page 92 / >> ==. >> In my opinion John Polkinghorne was right writing >> what to understand and to solve the problems of the Universe: >> ? They will demand for their eventual settlement not only >> physical insight but also metaphysical decision ?. >> / preface / >> And, maybe, Aristotle was right separating the world and knowledge >> on two parts: Physics and Metaphysics. >> === .Somebody wrote: >> >> The science will purify the religion of the ?ross?. >> I agree. >> ===========. >> Best wishes. >> Israel Sadovnik Socratus. >> ===. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group >> athttp://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. > > > > > > > > -- > Alberto. > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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