On 21 Jan 2013, at 19:36, John Clark wrote:

On Mon, Jan 21, 2013 Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote

>> Speaking of confusion, I am using the word "theology", as you admit in the above, as it has been used for the last 1500 years. If you insist on redefining common words (like God and theology) and give them your own private meaning then confusion is inevitable; we need a language to communicate and a language known to only one person is useless.

> If you define theology as the term is used after its political perversion then I agree

I don't quite see how changing the meaning of a word is a perversion, one meaning is as good as another as long as the meaning is self consistent and known to all, but never mind.

That is why I make clear that I use the word in the sense of Plato, and not Aristotle. Sometimes new discovery force to backtrack on previous author.



The important thing is that we both agree that if we wish to communicate then it might be wise to assign meanings to words as they have been assigned or 1500 years.

In science we just quote the reference of the papers we are using.




>  trivially with you.

Trivially?! If 2 people want to communicate then agreeing on what language to do it in the the first thing they need to do.

I am a bit astonished you defend so much the meaning of some words given by people you mock completely.



> You just confirm again that atheists defend the Roman terminology and theories.

Wow, calling a guy known for disliking religion religious, never heard that one before, at least I never heard it before I was 12.

But then why do you keep defending their use of the word? This is nonsense.




> you need to believe in the Fairy Tale Christian God to make you feel serious in disbelieving it.

Well yes obviously.

Ah!?!



I need to know what the hell they're saying before I can believe or disbelieve it, if I don't know the meaning of the words they're using then to me they're just making noises with their mouth, noises that are neither true nor untrue.

You can also look at the reference or just read the post. I have defined "God" by the "ultimate reality" responsible (causally, arithmetically, whatever) for our existence and consciousness, that we don't know but are searching with the hypothetico-deductive method. To sum up with Hirschberger (a German expert of antic philosophy): Plato's God is the "ultimate" Truth, by definition. This suits well with the neoplatonist, for which I give an arithmetical interpretation of all terms.




>> With or without theology people had no trouble figuring out that there is a reality, so did snails.

>Impossible, or comp is false.

Fine, then comp is false.

You believe that the brain are not Turing emulable?



I never liked it anyway and still don't even know what that made up word of yours means, every time I think I know you say it means something that contradicts what you said it meant before and I'm back at square one.

At square three to be precise. (Which means also that you know what comp means in my posts).





Many people, such as yourself, are willing to abandon the idea of God but not the word "God".

The concept of God, as used by Plato, the mystics, well many people. That our culture has added fairy tales believed by a minority of Americans does not change the fact that the term refer to what the theologians are looking for, in general. It stultifies me that you want only use the definition of some christians, despite you mock them as not being serious. It means that you are unaware that you take a big part of Aristotle theology for granted. I do not, and to get the technical points and their possible realtion with "reality", you have to make an effort for the weakening of your apparently unconscious religion (the belief in primary matter, the belief that God = Christian God, etc.).

Bruno

http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/



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