On 24 Jan 2013, at 17:33, Richard Ruquist wrote:

This is exactly what happened to Islam in the 1300s.
After the fundamentalists took over, rationality was dispensed with,
and centuries of scientific progress were deemed sufficient for Islam
for all time. And so it seems that Islam went from world leadership in
science to where it is today.

Fortunately the same did not happen to the Christians. But based on
John's comments, I wonder why not.

I would say it did, but much earlier, in 523 after JC.

I wrote in another forum:

Theology is born as a science, but in 523 after JC, we have separated the spiritual from the rational, and we are still paying the big price.

In the human science we act irrationally, as human history illustrates sadly.

Yet, the rational is the genuine path of the spiritual, and the religions which deny this can only be based on bad faith, or special interests.

I agree with Brent, science has plausibly regressed when the authoritative argument in theology has installed itself, and the Enlightenment is half enlightenment as non conventional theology did not yet go through.

But with the development of technologies we can't afford the luxury to be sleepy on the deep questions.

The choice is between lying a short period of time and evolving from little catastrophes, or lying for a long period of time and evolving from big catastrophes. Somehow.



On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 10:32 AM, John Clark <johnkcl...@gmail.com> wrote:
I sincerely hope that nobody believes I'm picking on Catholics because Protestant "thinking" is every bit as brain dead dumb as the Pope's. Martin Luther knew perfectly well that religious ideas cannot survive the slightest
amount of rational analysis without completely falling apart, but his
solution to that problem was not to get better ideas but to simply insist that people check their brain at the door before they start to think about God; here are some of the noises that particular bipedal hominid made with his mouth, although I think the noises made from the other end of Luther's gastrointestinal tract may have contain more wisdom, at least they might
have disclosed some evidence on how the human digestive system works:

“Reason is the greatest enemy that faith has; it never comes to the aid of spiritual things, but - more frequently than not - struggles against the
divine Word, treating with contempt all that emanates from God”

"Whoever wants to be a Christian should tear the eyes out of reason."

"Reason should be destroyed in all Christians."

"Reason must be deluded, blinded, and destroyed. Faith must trample
underfoot all reason, sense, and understanding, and whatever it sees must be
put out of sight and know nothing but the word of God."

"Reason is the Devil's greatest whore; by nature and manner of being she is a noxious whore; she is a prostitute, the Devil's appointed whore; whore eaten by scab and leprosy who ought to be trodden under foot and destroyed, she and her wisdom ... Throw dung in her face to make her ugly. She is and she ought to be drowned in baptism... She would deserve, the wretch, to be
banished to the filthiest place in the house, to the closets."

"We know, on the authority of Moses, that longer than six thousand years the
world did not exist."

"People gave ear to an upstart astrologer [Copernicus] who strove to show that the earth revolves, not the heavens or the firmament, the sun and the moon. This fool wishes to reverse the entire science of astronomy; but sacred scripture tells us [Joshua 10:13] that Joshua commanded the sun to
stand still, and not the earth."

After this contemptible performance, after flat out praising the virtues of stupidity and unapologetically trying to turn everybody into imbeciles I don't see how anyone could call themselves a Lutheran or a Protestant or
even a Christian without intense embarrassment.

John K Clark

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