2013/2/7 Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be>

>
> On 06 Feb 2013, at 18:07, Craig Weinberg wrote:
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, February 6, 2013 9:37:22 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 05 Feb 2013, at 19:01, Craig Weinberg wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, February 5, 2013 12:51:10 PM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On 05 Feb 2013, at 18:10, Quentin Anciaux wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 2013/2/5 Bruno Marchal <mar...@ulb.ac.be>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 05 Feb 2013, at 14:34, Roger Clough wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  Hi meekerdb
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> There's nothing wrong with science as science.
>>>> But a problem arises when you apply the results to theology.
>>>>
>>>> Two completely different worlds.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That's indeed a point where string atheists agree with string
>>>> christian. Let us try to be not serious on theology, so we can assert the
>>>> fairy tales. Strong Christian are happy because they feel like they can
>>>> contradict the scientific evidences, and the atheists are happy so they can
>>>> continue to mock the christians, and continue to sleep on their own
>>>> (materialist) dogma.
>>>>
>>>
>>> You put meaning in atheism which is not there... an atheist can
>>> perfectly be an idealist... materialism is not part of the definition of
>>> atheism.
>>>
>>>
>>> Definition here are often contradictory. Some years ago, the definition
>>> keep changing.
>>>
>>> Can you give me the name of an atheist who is idealist?
>>>
>>
>> I would consider Sam Harris and Daniel Dennet idealists, in the sense
>> that the ideal is reduced to function rather than a material.
>>
>>
>>
>> That is not idealism. That's only the common functionalism.
>>
>> Idealists believe that matter is a production of the mind.
>>
>
>
> I think that the common belief of Harris and Dennett is that the function
> of mind creates the illusion of matter as we know it.
>
>
> That contradicts what I read. You might give a reference.
>
>
>
>
> Beyond our view of matter, I would guess that both of them would agree
> that matter is a function of quantum functions, which to me is the same
> thing as an image of the mind made impersonal.
>
>
> But that is not what people means by quantum, which need to refer to the
> *assumed* (not derived like in comp) physics.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> Dennett made clear that he is physicalist, naturalist, and weak
>> materialist.
>>
>> I don't know any scientist being idealist, and even in philosophy of
>> mind, most dictionaries describe it as being abandoned.
>>
>
> I agree in the sense that you intend, but I think that functionalism is
> the same thing as impersonal idealism.
>
>
> You can't provide new meaning to terms having standard definition.
>

As you do with term such as God ?


>  Most functionalist are weak-materialist today.
>

Most people that believe in God, believe it is a supreme being/person which
answers the prayer. Do you deny that ?

Do you really think a lot of people use your god = arithmetical
truth/existential absolute ?

If you talk about God to people not reading this list, they would never
come to your meaning, as such your usage is a misuse and leads to confusion.

Regards,
Quentin


> Most scientists believe that comp needs materialism. They are still
> completely unaware of the first person indeterminacy, and the immaterialist
> consequences. Functionalism might imply immaterialism, as comp does (comp
> is that there is a level where functionalism is correct. Functionalism is
> usually vague on the level, which is implicitly given by some neuro-level,
> comp is just a much weaker hypothesis).
>
> Bruno
>
>
>
>
>
> Craig
>
>
>> That explain probably why people take time to swallow the consequences of
>> comp. Comp is the favorite theory of the (weak) materialist, and so it is
>> hard for them to get that comp and materialism, and the usual weak Occam
>> razor, are contradictory.
>>
>> Bruno
>>
>> Bruno
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Craig
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Bruno
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Quentin
>>>
>>>>
>>>> That does not give much place for the genuine inquiry, I think.
>>>>
>>>> Bruno
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  ----- Receiving the following content -----
>>>> *From:* meekerdb
>>>>  *Receiver:* everything-list
>>>>  *Time:* 2013-02-04, 13:48:50
>>>>  *Subject:* Re: Topical combination
>>>>
>>>>  On 2/4/2013 7:56 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  On 03 Feb 2013, at 12:30, Roger Clough wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  Hi John Mikes
>>>> �
>>>> It says
>>>> �
>>>> "The Fabric of Eternity is the author's personal view of the Universe
>>>> that allows for science and theology to explore the wonders of creation in
>>>> peaceful unison.'
>>>> �
>>>> IMHO that is completely misguided, because the worlds they
>>>> understand燼re separate magisteria, to use�
>>>> Stephan Jay Gould's phrase.� Science deals with the physical world, and
>>>> theology deals with
>>>> the nonphysical world.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Only an Aristotelian can say "science deals with the physical world".
>>>> This sums up physicalism.
>>>>
>>>> A Platonist says that science is just the modest tool/method to deal
>>>> with any subject.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Except it was Plato who thought he could understand the world by just
>>>> thinking about it, while it was Aristotle who went out to observe and let
>>>> the world teach him.� So who was modest and who was arrogant?
>>>>
>>>> Brent
>>>>
>>>>  Allowing the abandon of science in the theological field can only be
>>>> an invitation to the bad faith in there, and to the "don't ask" mentality.
>>>>
>>>> Bruno
>>>>
>>>>
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