2013/2/7 Bruno Marchal <[email protected]> > > On 06 Feb 2013, at 18:07, Craig Weinberg wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, February 6, 2013 9:37:22 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> On 05 Feb 2013, at 19:01, Craig Weinberg wrote: >> >> >> >> On Tuesday, February 5, 2013 12:51:10 PM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: >>> >>> >>> On 05 Feb 2013, at 18:10, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> 2013/2/5 Bruno Marchal <[email protected]> >>> >>>> >>>> On 05 Feb 2013, at 14:34, Roger Clough wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi meekerdb >>>> >>>> >>>> There's nothing wrong with science as science. >>>> But a problem arises when you apply the results to theology. >>>> >>>> Two completely different worlds. >>>> >>>> >>>> That's indeed a point where string atheists agree with string >>>> christian. Let us try to be not serious on theology, so we can assert the >>>> fairy tales. Strong Christian are happy because they feel like they can >>>> contradict the scientific evidences, and the atheists are happy so they can >>>> continue to mock the christians, and continue to sleep on their own >>>> (materialist) dogma. >>>> >>> >>> You put meaning in atheism which is not there... an atheist can >>> perfectly be an idealist... materialism is not part of the definition of >>> atheism. >>> >>> >>> Definition here are often contradictory. Some years ago, the definition >>> keep changing. >>> >>> Can you give me the name of an atheist who is idealist? >>> >> >> I would consider Sam Harris and Daniel Dennet idealists, in the sense >> that the ideal is reduced to function rather than a material. >> >> >> >> That is not idealism. That's only the common functionalism. >> >> Idealists believe that matter is a production of the mind. >> > > > I think that the common belief of Harris and Dennett is that the function > of mind creates the illusion of matter as we know it. > > > That contradicts what I read. You might give a reference. > > > > > Beyond our view of matter, I would guess that both of them would agree > that matter is a function of quantum functions, which to me is the same > thing as an image of the mind made impersonal. > > > But that is not what people means by quantum, which need to refer to the > *assumed* (not derived like in comp) physics. > > > > > > > >> Dennett made clear that he is physicalist, naturalist, and weak >> materialist. >> >> I don't know any scientist being idealist, and even in philosophy of >> mind, most dictionaries describe it as being abandoned. >> > > I agree in the sense that you intend, but I think that functionalism is > the same thing as impersonal idealism. > > > You can't provide new meaning to terms having standard definition. >
As you do with term such as God ? > Most functionalist are weak-materialist today. > Most people that believe in God, believe it is a supreme being/person which answers the prayer. Do you deny that ? Do you really think a lot of people use your god = arithmetical truth/existential absolute ? If you talk about God to people not reading this list, they would never come to your meaning, as such your usage is a misuse and leads to confusion. Regards, Quentin > Most scientists believe that comp needs materialism. They are still > completely unaware of the first person indeterminacy, and the immaterialist > consequences. Functionalism might imply immaterialism, as comp does (comp > is that there is a level where functionalism is correct. Functionalism is > usually vague on the level, which is implicitly given by some neuro-level, > comp is just a much weaker hypothesis). > > Bruno > > > > > > Craig > > >> That explain probably why people take time to swallow the consequences of >> comp. Comp is the favorite theory of the (weak) materialist, and so it is >> hard for them to get that comp and materialism, and the usual weak Occam >> razor, are contradictory. >> >> Bruno >> >> Bruno >> >> >> >> >> >> Craig >> >> >>> >>> Bruno >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Quentin >>> >>>> >>>> That does not give much place for the genuine inquiry, I think. >>>> >>>> Bruno >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Receiving the following content ----- >>>> *From:* meekerdb >>>> *Receiver:* everything-list >>>> *Time:* 2013-02-04, 13:48:50 >>>> *Subject:* Re: Topical combination >>>> >>>> On 2/4/2013 7:56 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> On 03 Feb 2013, at 12:30, Roger Clough wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi John Mikes >>>> � >>>> It says >>>> � >>>> "The Fabric of Eternity is the author's personal view of the Universe >>>> that allows for science and theology to explore the wonders of creation in >>>> peaceful unison.' >>>> � >>>> IMHO that is completely misguided, because the worlds they >>>> understand燼re separate magisteria, to use� >>>> Stephan Jay Gould's phrase.� Science deals with the physical world, and >>>> theology deals with >>>> the nonphysical world. >>>> >>>> >>>> Only an Aristotelian can say "science deals with the physical world". >>>> This sums up physicalism. >>>> >>>> A Platonist says that science is just the modest tool/method to deal >>>> with any subject. >>>> >>>> >>>> Except it was Plato who thought he could understand the world by just >>>> thinking about it, while it was Aristotle who went out to observe and let >>>> the world teach him.� So who was modest and who was arrogant? >>>> >>>> Brent >>>> >>>> Allowing the abandon of science in the theological field can only be >>>> an invitation to the bad faith in there, and to the "don't ask" mentality. >>>> >>>> Bruno >>>> >>>> >>>> ______________________________**______________________________** >>>> ________ >>>> *DreamMail* - The first mail software supporting source tracking >>>> www.dreammail.org >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to everything-li...@googlegroups.**com. >>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/** >>>> group/everything-list?hl=en<http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en> >>>> . >>>> For more options, visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/**groups/opt_out<https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out> >>>> . >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~**marchal/<http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to everything-li...@googlegroups.**com. >>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/** >>>> group/everything-list?hl=en<http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en> >>>> . >>>> For more options, visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/**groups/opt_out<https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out> >>>> . >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to everything-li...@googlegroups.**com. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/** >>> group/everything-list?hl=en<http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en> >>> . >>> For more options, visit >>> https://groups.google.com/**groups/opt_out<https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out> >>> . >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~**marchal/ <http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to everything-li...@**googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to everyth...@googlegroups.**com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/** >> group/everything-list?hl=en<http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en> >> . >> For more options, visit >> https://groups.google.com/**groups/opt_out<https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out> >> . >> >> >> >> >> http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~**marchal/ <http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/> >> >> >> >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > > > http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > -- All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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