On 08 Feb 2013, at 13:45, Quentin Anciaux wrote:
2013/2/8 Telmo Menezes <te...@telmomenezes.com>
On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 12:39 PM, Quentin Anciaux
<allco...@gmail.com> wrote:
2013/2/8 Telmo Menezes <te...@telmomenezes.com>
On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 11:35 AM, Quentin Anciaux
<allco...@gmail.com> wrote:
2013/2/8 Telmo Menezes <te...@telmomenezes.com>
Well, while going from Telmo to the cat, you're rigth that Telmo
memories should be erased, the inverse is not true. Why couldn't you
be back as Telmo + the memories of having been a cat ?
Hi Quentin,
Because that would require that I had write-only access to my human
memories while being a cat. I don't think that's possible.
Why not ?? You put forward a technical problem on a thought
experiment which have if you go that way a bigger technical problem
in the first place... so your objection is totally irrelevant, we
are in a thought experiment, in that setting, if we can conceive
transferring consciousnes of the cat, then there is no reason we
can't imagine you remember being a cat after the experiment. I'll
agree to talk technical problems the day we would have the first
insight of how to really do it... before, it is just premature to
use technical arguments.
Fair enough, maybe it's my CS bias. But I'm still not convinced this
is a purely technical issue. Can you conceive of any system that
stores information in some coherent way that you can write to
without reading?
Well, yes... with computer you could imagine doing just that... so
why not ? Also, the fact that you can't imagine a solution yourself,
doesn't mean there isn't one, lack of imagination is also not an
argument.
I agree. This can happen in dreams. I have personally experience this
a number of times, and I have read similar reports. Actually Louis
Jouvet, the discoverer of the REM dreams, has studied that phenomenon,
in the case of people relating simultaneous unrelated dreams, and he
attributed this to the disfunctionning of the corpus callosum during
the dream phase. It makes momentarily the two hemisphere independent.
It looks like we can integrate different identities in different past.
The result is a bit troubling ... unless we are already aware of the
relative nature of personal identity. This happens also when using
dissociative drugs.
Of course, if Telmo wakes up with the memory of a cat experience, he
will only access of the memory of cat + Telmo, which might biase the
original experience of the cat, but not necessarily so much for a
short period of time. This makes possible to conceive "waking up" and
memorizing more than one past threads. If the many past threads are
equivalently realist and coherent, it leads to a direct understanding
of the relative nature of identity, and the possibility of sharing
initial consciousness of ... who? I let you ponder on this.
Bruno
Regards,
Quentin
Regards,
Quentin
For example, to store the memories on how a cat feels about climbing
a tree, I would have to access my human representation of a tree to
connect the memories to it, but accessing my human representation of
a tree would spoil my cat experience.
Regards,
Quentin
And yes I think there are degrees and kinds of consciousness and
that a cat's consciousness differs in both respects. There's
consciousness of being an individual and of being located in 3-space
and in time. You and the cat have both of those (whereas a Mars
rover only has the latter). But there's language and narrative
memory that you have and the cat doesn't. There's reflective
thought,"I'm Telmo and I'm thinking about myself and where I fit in
the world". The cat probably doesn't have this because it's not
social - but a dog might.
But is this really a case of "degrees of consciousness" or is it
just the general property of "being conscious" instantiated in
different contexts? The fact that you believe you can turn me into a
cat seems to indicate that ultimately you believe that consciousness
is all the same.
Brent
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en
.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en
.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
--
All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en
.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en
.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
--
All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en
.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en
.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
--
All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en
.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email
to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
