Re: How can intelligence be physical ?

Sun, 10 Feb 2013 07:23:39 -0800 


On 09 Feb 2013, at 11:05, Telmo Menezes wrote:
On Sat, Feb 9, 2013 at 1:36 AM, Quentin Anciaux <[email protected]> wrote: 


2013/2/8 Telmo Menezes <[email protected]>
I totally agree with that, what I don't agree is when you say the moment you're becoming Telmo again, you should lose *all* cat memories/feeling... I totally disagree with that unless you have some proof it should be so.
Sure, I have no proof, I'm just speculating. But what I'm speculating is the following:
- You need a significant part of the brain of the cat to be able to understand its memories; - You need a significant part of the brain of Telmo to have Telmo feel like he remembers something; - For Telmo to remember cat memories, you need both brains and an interface between them -- this would result in a new entity that is neither Telmo nor the cat.
The problem is that we don't know the comp subst level of the cat, but for Telmo to, to have the experience of the cat, would be like a sort of amnesia of what humans learned since they were equivalent to cat in complexity in their past lives, and then having experience like climbing trees, etc. Then, if the amnesia was just a memory dissociation, you can wake up and see it like dream, where you can remember having different memories. We can't be sure that it was a cat experience, but it *might* be, or close enough to make sense to Quentin's proposition. It might be harder for a cat to "dream" having a human experience, as our brain are reasonably more complex than the cat experience, though. But even this might still be conceptually possible, except that waking up, that cat has become a human (unless he forgets the whole dream). 

Bruno










Quentin
My argument is based on abstract CS, not hard drives or other technicalities.
write-only does not have to be for everybody. But it's still a technical disgression and it is discussing the number of angels on a pin for now. 

I think it's a deep question.

It's not unless you have good working knowledge of the question.
Also, the fact that you can't imagine a solution yourself, doesn't mean there isn't one, lack of imagination is also not an argument. 

I agree, but it's an intuition.

Well...

Quentin



Regards,
Quentin



Regards,
Quentin
For example, to store the memories on how a cat feels about climbing a tree, I would have to access my human representation of a tree to connect the memories to it, but accessing my human representation of a tree would spoil my cat experience. 


Regards,
Quentin
And yes I think there are degrees and kinds of consciousness and that a cat's consciousness differs in both respects. There's consciousness of being an individual and of being located in 3-space and in time. You and the cat have both of those (whereas a Mars rover only has the latter). But there's language and narrative memory that you have and the cat doesn't. There's reflective thought,"I'm Telmo and I'm thinking about myself and where I fit in the world". The cat probably doesn't have this because it's not social - but a dog might.
But is this really a case of "degrees of consciousness" or is it just the general property of "being conscious" instantiated in different contexts? The fact that you believe you can turn me into a cat seems to indicate that ultimately you believe that consciousness is all the same. 


Brent

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