On 3/1/2013 3:09 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote:

On Friday, March 1, 2013 12:46:55 AM UTC-5, Brent wrote:

    On 2/28/2013 5:30 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote:

    On Thursday, February 28, 2013 8:01:48 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote:

        On 2/28/2013 4:11 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote:

        On Thursday, February 28, 2013 5:37:50 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote:

            On 2/28/2013 1:50 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote:
You have no way of knowing what I can't know about you either.

            You have no way of knowing what ways I have of knowing what you 
know about
            what ways John knows of having ways of knowing about what you can
            know...either. :-)

            blather, n. strings of words in the form of assertions having no 

        Calling it blather doesn't change the fact that you can't make an 
        claim against someone else's non-omniscience.

        But I can make an empirically informed one.

    That means that you claim to have empirical information about consciousness 
    another person's information about their own consciousness.

    (a) I said I have empirical information. I didn't say it is beyond somebody 

    How can you claim to have that at the same time that you claim someone else 

    (b) It was you who claimed to know what John couldn't know.

No, I said this:

    >> The computer can't tell if its audio or video no matter what. It can 
only tell
    what application might be associated with opening that file.

>As there are zero empirical differences between those two things HOW THE HELL 

My statement is empirically correct. It does not look at any visual or audio qualities of a file to determine what kind of a file it is. Anyone who has worked with computers for long enough should be able to understand why this is indesputably true. Files have flags and pointers which identify their type, they are not looked at or listened to by the computer.

That's why I always point out that intelligence is relative to an environment. When you talk about "seeing" or "listening" that implies an environment of photons or acoustic waves carrying information about the environment. When you then switch to a computer that has no photon or acoustic wave sensors and say it can't see or hear you have created a strawman.

Even speaking into a microphone yields nothing on the other side which is fundamentally different from what a camera would yield - voltage changes in microelectronics have no origination bias. This is the very thing that makes computers useful - they don't care what you do with them. They will treat data as data no matter what it is, and never need to reconstruct it into anything meaningful to us. These are some of the defining qualities of computation. The point of this thread was to show that even geometry is not at all indicated from math or computation, and derives solely from sensory experiences of shapes. Can you dispute this?

Sure. Can you prove it?

Computers prove theorems in geometry. As Hilbert said geometry could as well be about tables, chairs, and beer steins as points, lines, and intersections.


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