On Tue, Mar 19, 2013 at 5:05 PM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:
>
> On 19 Mar 2013, at 16:52, Telmo Menezes wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Mar 19, 2013 at 2:06 AM, Russell Standish <li...@hpcoders.com.au>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 18, 2013 at 07:39:44PM +0100, Bruno Marchal wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Roger,
>>>>
>>>> On 18 Mar 2013, at 12:48, Roger Clough wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Since mind is an MQS or Multiple Quantum Superposition, it can
>>>>> process information at the rate of a quantum computer.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Since you seem to talk  philosophy, let me translate what you say
>>>> for our friends the scientists.
>>>>
>>>> If we assume that mind is a Multiple Quantum Superposition, and if
>>>> we assume that mind can exploit those quantum superpositions to
>>>> process information, then the mind can process information at the
>>>> rate of a quantum computer.
>>>>
>>>> That implication seems to me quite reasonable.
>>>>
>>>> Test of the theory according to which a human mind is a Multiple
>>>> Quantum Superposition:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 1) show me a human as good as a quantum computer for finding a
>>>> needle in a haystack.
>>>>
>>>> 2) Factorize 11111311111911111111511111111111121212111111111
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Demonstrating these sorts of exponential speedups only falsifies the
>>> proposition that a human mind is an ordinary classical computer (but
>>> not COMP). It does not confirm in any way that a human mind operates
>>> as a quantum computer, since random oracles are another way of
>>> bridging computational complexity classes.
>>>
>>> We only need one idiot-savant to demonstrate this.
>>>
>>> By contrast, being unable to demonstrate this scaling means - well
>>> nothing
>>> at all, actually.
>>
>>
>> I agree with Russell here.
>>
>> More generally, I always disliked these evaluations of the
>> computational power of the human brain by the speed at which it can do
>> arithmetics. It's quite possible that the brain is a computational
>> beast, but the "software" it runs is specialised in other things:
>> image pattern recognition, parsing semantic trees and so on.
>> Arithmetics is a recent and unnatural activity for the brain, so it
>> might very well have to be performed on top of inadequate and
>> expensive pre-existing machinery.
>
>
>
> But QC is not just a speed scaling of computation. It is a different way to
> do some computation, some of which are just impossible to do in "real time"
> by a classical computer.

Good point, I didn't mean to imply the contrary.

> So here the speed is of conceptual importance. If
> my brain is a QC I can do a Fourier transform of the state of my infinitely
> many doppelgangers in some superposition states of myself, and this gives
> ways to confirm the quantum many-world in a less indirect way than by doing
> QM.

That would be a cool explanation for the feeling of deja-vu?

> My point to Russell was that a random oracle is less powerful than a quantum
> computer, even if the contrary is correct (a quantum computer can simulate a
> random oracle, in principle).
>
> My point to Roger was just that it is doubtful that the brain is a quantum
> computer, for theoretical and experimental reason.

An hypothesis that fascinates me, though, is that it may have access
to sources of quantum randomness. I believe that randomness is related
to creativity. One of the things that always bothered me with Roger
Penrose's argument is that he considers a theoretical classical
computer, but real computers have random number generators* that
exploit non Turing-emulable sources of randomness. This has
non-trivial implications, and anyone who played with evolutionary
computation / alife will probably agree.

* even pseudo-number generators can be seeded by the clock time, for example

> That would change nothing in UDA and AUDA. If the brain is a quantum
> computer, it would only mean something on the lowness of the comp
> substitution level, and a more complex back and forth between the Turing
> emulable and the first person indeterminacy (Turing recoverable from the
> indeterminacy on the whole UD*).

Sure, I did not assume that the brain as a QC would pose a problem to COMP.

> Bruno
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>> --
>>>
>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Prof Russell Standish                  Phone 0425 253119 (mobile)
>>> Principal, High Performance Coders
>>> Visiting Professor of Mathematics      hpco...@hpcoders.com.au
>>> University of New South Wales          http://www.hpcoders.com.au
>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
> http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
>
>
>
>
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