On Sun, Mar 24, 2013 at 02:05:23PM +0100, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > On 21 Mar 2013, at 13:46, Telmo Menezes wrote: > > >I still find it hard to grasp how we could have a creative process > >without some degree of random exploration. > > Why random. Pseudo random can be enough, or the natural randomness > contained in the computable. > No machine can distinguish randomness from the behavior of a more > complex machine than herself, so I think that the kind of randomness > and indetermination that you invoke in creativity is already there, > in many form and shape in the computable.
This is true, however real randomness is aavailable, through the very first person ineterminancy phenomenon you mention below, and evolution doesn't care, it will exploit whatever is at hand. For a human, it is conceivable that we have mental processes that are too complex for our introspection to understand. These would be random enough. But for a simple animal, trying to flee a predator - think fish fleeing a shark, for instance - their brains may not be sufficiently complex to generate the sort of complex behaviour required to outwit the predatit. In which case, evolution will exploit the genuine randomness available in the environment. > The point I made is conceptual: what I say is that we don't need > real pure randomness. We have it by the first person indeterminacy, > but its role is more in the statistical stabilization of the > computable than used as a tool in creativity, fro which the > computable is enough random per se. > Why is first person indeterminacy, not "real pure randomness"? I think the genius in your approach is showing how genuinely random phenomenona can appear in a fully deterministic system. It solves a real philosophical problem, and I don't see why you would want to shrink back from such a discovery. -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Prof Russell Standish Phone 0425 253119 (mobile) Principal, High Performance Coders Visiting Professor of Mathematics [email protected] University of New South Wales http://www.hpcoders.com.au ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
