On 28 Mar 2013, at 16:08, Richard Ruquist wrote:
On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 10:52 AM, Bruno Marchal <[email protected]>
wrote:
On 26 Mar 2013, at 18:19, meekerdb wrote:
On 3/26/2013 4:21 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
I can explain why if a machine can have experience and enough
reflexivity,
then the machine can already understand that she cannot justify
rationally
the presence of its experience. No machine, nor us, can ever see
how that
could be true. It *is* in the range of the non communicable.
If some aliens decide that we are not conscious, we will not find
any test
to prove them wrong.
And if we decide the Mars Rover is conscious, can any test prove us
wrong?
Yes. But it is longer to explain than for comp. Strong AI is
refutable in a
weaker sense than comp. The refutation here are indirect and based
on the
acceptance of the classical tgeory of knowledge, that is S4 (not
necessarily
Theaetetus).
Or if Craig decides an atom is conscious, can any test prove him
wrong?
A person can be conscious. What would it mean that an atom is
conscious?
What is an atom?
Davies suggests that the threshold for consciousness based on the
Lloyd limit is the complexity of the human cell.
In which physics? If he assumes comp, he must derive that physics
first, to get a valid consequences.
BTW I don't see the use of comp in your paper.
Now, I can accept that human cells have already some consciousness.
Even bacteria. I dunno but I am open to the idea. Bacteria have
already full Turing universality, and exploit it in complex genetic
regulation control.
Comp is open with a strict Moore law: the number of angels (or bit
processing) that you can put at the top of a needle might be
unbounded. Like Feynman said, there is room in the bottom. But we
might have insuperable read and write problems. There might be
computer in which we can upload our minds, but never came back.
Bruno
Which I think is John Clark's point: Consciousness is easy.
Intelligence is
hard.
Consciousness might be more easy than intelligence, and certainly
than
matter. Consciousness is easy with UDA, when you get the
difference between
both G and G*, and between Bp, Bp & p, Bp & Dt, etc. (AUDA).
Matter is more difficult. Today we have only the propositional
observable.
Intelligence, in my opinion is rather easy too. It is a question of
"abstract thermodynamic", intelligence is when you get enough heat
while
young, something like that. It is close to courage, and it is what
make
competence possible.
Competence is the most difficult, as they are distributed on
transfinite
lattice of incomparable degrees. Some can ask for necessary long
work, and
can have negative feedback on intelligence.
Bruno
Brent
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