On 28 Mar 2013, at 16:08, Richard Ruquist wrote:

On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 10:52 AM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:

On 26 Mar 2013, at 18:19, meekerdb wrote:

On 3/26/2013 4:21 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:

I can explain why if a machine can have experience and enough reflexivity, then the machine can already understand that she cannot justify rationally the presence of its experience. No machine, nor us, can ever see how that
could be true. It *is* in the range of the non communicable.

If some aliens decide that we are not conscious, we will not find any test
to prove them wrong.


And if we decide the Mars Rover is conscious, can any test prove us wrong?


Yes. But it is longer to explain than for comp. Strong AI is refutable in a weaker sense than comp. The refutation here are indirect and based on the acceptance of the classical tgeory of knowledge, that is S4 (not necessarily
Theaetetus).



Or if Craig decides an atom is conscious, can any test prove him wrong?


A person can be conscious. What would it mean that an atom is conscious?
What is an atom?



Davies suggests that the threshold for consciousness based on the
Lloyd limit is the complexity of the human cell.

In which physics? If he assumes comp, he must derive that physics first, to get a valid consequences.
BTW I don't see the use of comp in your paper.

Now, I can accept that human cells have already some consciousness. Even bacteria. I dunno but I am open to the idea. Bacteria have already full Turing universality, and exploit it in complex genetic regulation control.

Comp is open with a strict Moore law: the number of angels (or bit processing) that you can put at the top of a needle might be unbounded. Like Feynman said, there is room in the bottom. But we might have insuperable read and write problems. There might be computer in which we can upload our minds, but never came back.

Bruno








Which I think is John Clark's point: Consciousness is easy. Intelligence is
hard.



Consciousness might be more easy than intelligence, and certainly than matter. Consciousness is easy with UDA, when you get the difference between
both G and G*, and between Bp, Bp & p, Bp & Dt, etc. (AUDA).

Matter is more difficult. Today we have only the propositional observable.

Intelligence, in my opinion is rather easy too. It is a question of
"abstract thermodynamic", intelligence is when you get enough heat while young, something like that. It is close to courage, and it is what make
competence possible.

Competence is the most difficult, as they are distributed on transfinite lattice of incomparable degrees. Some can ask for necessary long work, and
can have negative feedback on intelligence.

Bruno






Brent

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything- l...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en .
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.




http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/



--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything- l...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en .
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.



--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en .
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.



http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/



--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.


Reply via email to