On Thursday, April 4, 2013 7:10:45 AM UTC-4, stathisp wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 8:26 AM, John Mikes <jam...@gmail.com<javascript:>
> > wrote:
>> Stathis wrote:
>> *"I also have a very simple and straightforward idea of free will: I
>> exercise my free will when I make a choice without being coerced...."*
>> *
>> *
>> And how do you know that you are *not* coerced? your mind works on both
>> conscious and (sub-? un-? beyond-?) conscious arguments that 'influence' 
>> (nicer, than 'coerced') your decisive process. Then again you may decide 
>> to 
>> 'will' against your best (or not-so-best?) interest - for some reason. 
>> You even 
>> may misunderstand circumstances and use them wrongly. 
>> All such (and another 1000) may influence (coerce??) your free decision. 
>> Continuing your sentence:
> I'm not coerced when I don't think I am coerced. Obviously, all my actions 
> are due to subconscious influences, namely, the biochemistry of my brain, 
> of which I am unaware.

Why are all of your actions "obviously" due to subconscious influences? If 
that were the case why would personal awareness exist?

>> * "...I never said that the laws of physics deny the possibility of free 
>> will,
>> but free will is impossible if you define it in such a way as to be
>> incompatible with the laws of physics or even with logic."*
>> *
>> *
>> The "Laws" of physics are our deduction from the so far observed 
>> incomplete
>> circumstances - they don't "allow" or "deny" - maybe explain at the level 
>> of their
>> compatibility. The "impossibility" of free will is not a no-no, unless it 
>> has been 
>> proven to be an existing(?) FACT (what I do not believe in).
>> Logic is the ultimate human pretension, especially if not said 'what kind 
>> of'. 
> In order to decide if free will exists the first thing is to understand 
> what is meant by the term. If it means "I choose to do what I want I do" 
> then free will exists. If it means something else such as "neither 
> determined nor random" then it doesn't exist.

What do you claim is the difference between choosing to do what you want to 
do and acting as a physical phenomenon which is intentional rather than 
unintentional (determined or random)?


> -- 
> Stathis Papaioannou 

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