On Thursday, April 18, 2013 5:42:21 AM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote:
>
>
> On 17 Apr 2013, at 19:09, John Clark wrote:
>
> On Wed, Apr 17, 2013  Bruno Marchal <mar...@ulb.ac.be <javascript:>>wrote:
>
> >> it is disconcerting to learn that after trying to make logical points 
>>> with somebody for over a year to find out that there is not the slightest 
>>> possibility of logic making any change whatsoever in their beliefs.  
>>>
>>  
>>>
>> > This is exactly what I and some others thought, and said, about your 
>> posts when you pretend to not understand, or to refute, the first person 
>> indeterminacy. 
>>
>
> I have no trouble understanding first person indeterminacy. I (the first 
> person) don't know with certainty (indeterminacy) what I am going to see 
> next and even if I did I wouldn't be certain what I would do next until I 
> did it. All that is crystal clear, however you claimed to have found a new 
> sort of indeterminacy unrelated to Quantum Mechanics or what Godel or 
> Turing found, and despite your repeated efforts I was unable to understand 
> that at all. With some embarrassment I admit that there have been times in 
> my life when I pretended to understand something when really I did not, but 
> I can honestly say that except maybe for a short time as a joke I can't 
> recall even one time that I pretended not to understand something when 
> really I did. Some would say I'm stupid enough as it is and don't need to 
> pretend to be any dumber than I am.   
>
>
> The FIP does not require neither Gödel, nor the quantum. It is a simple 
> consequence of the possibility of the duplicability of machine, and of 
> the definition of first person that I gave in the comp frame.
>
>
>
>
> > It is more easy to see the irrationality of others than of oneself 
>> apparently.
>>
>
> In general that is certainly true but Bruno let me ask you a very serious 
> question, doesn't all this astrology stuff bother you and make you question 
> how you allocate your time? Doesn't it bother you to learn that Craig 
> Weinberg, somebody you have spent a lot of effort debating with, would say 
> things like  "embody the Aquarian tension of revolutionary rationalism 
> symbolized by the Saturnian-Uranian co-rulership of Aquarius." and "With 
> their interesting combination of Mars in Libra squaring their Moon and 
> trining their Sun" and  "The Neptune Saturn conjunction with the Jupiter 
> stellium in Neptune-ruled Pisce" and  "There is nothing in numerology or 
> astrology which is even remotely as flaky as modern cosmology."  and  
> "Astrology is extremely rational" ?  I've got to tell you that finding out 
> that I have misjudged somebody that massively bothers the hell out of me.
>
>
> I agree with you. But Craig made a lot of invalid arguments well before 
> this gross statements. As a teacher I am used to bet that crank can 
> progress, so when an argument is invalid I make the correction. I know that 
> some people cannot listen, but I keep hope, basically because that's my job.
>
> His argument for astrology was isomorphic to the main argument in favor of 
> drug prohibition. Basically a confusion between p->q and q->p. Everyday 
> that error appears in media, news, etc., be it on terrorism, drug, 
> religion, etc.  I can't help to denounce it wherever it appears.
>

When have I ever argued in favor of drug prohibition? Are you confusing me 
with one of the Right-Wingers?

Craig
 

>
> Bruno
>
>
>
>
>   John K Clark
>
>
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