On 17 Apr 2013, at 19:09, John Clark wrote:
On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:
>> it is disconcerting to learn that after trying to make logical
points with somebody for over a year to find out that there is not
the slightest possibility of logic making any change whatsoever in
their beliefs.
> This is exactly what I and some others thought, and said, about
your posts when you pretend to not understand, or to refute, the
first person indeterminacy.
I have no trouble understanding first person indeterminacy. I (the
first person) don't know with certainty (indeterminacy) what I am
going to see next and even if I did I wouldn't be certain what I
would do next until I did it. All that is crystal clear, however you
claimed to have found a new sort of indeterminacy unrelated to
Quantum Mechanics or what Godel or Turing found, and despite your
repeated efforts I was unable to understand that at all. With some
embarrassment I admit that there have been times in my life when I
pretended to understand something when really I did not, but I can
honestly say that except maybe for a short time as a joke I can't
recall even one time that I pretended not to understand something
when really I did. Some would say I'm stupid enough as it is and
don't need to pretend to be any dumber than I am.
The FIP does not require neither Gödel, nor the quantum. It is a
simple consequence of the possibility of the duplicability of machine,
and of the definition of first person that I gave in the comp frame.
> It is more easy to see the irrationality of others than of oneself
apparently.
In general that is certainly true but Bruno let me ask you a very
serious question, doesn't all this astrology stuff bother you and
make you question how you allocate your time? Doesn't it bother you
to learn that Craig Weinberg, somebody you have spent a lot of
effort debating with, would say things like "embody the Aquarian
tension of revolutionary rationalism symbolized by the Saturnian-
Uranian co-rulership of Aquarius." and "With their interesting
combination of Mars in Libra squaring their Moon and trining their
Sun" and "The Neptune Saturn conjunction with the Jupiter stellium
in Neptune-ruled Pisce" and "There is nothing in numerology or
astrology which is even remotely as flaky as modern cosmology."
and "Astrology is extremely rational" ? I've got to tell you that
finding out that I have misjudged somebody that massively bothers
the hell out of me.
I agree with you. But Craig made a lot of invalid arguments well
before this gross statements. As a teacher I am used to bet that crank
can progress, so when an argument is invalid I make the correction. I
know that some people cannot listen, but I keep hope, basically
because that's my job.
His argument for astrology was isomorphic to the main argument in
favor of drug prohibition. Basically a confusion between p->q and q-
>p. Everyday that error appears in media, news, etc., be it on
terrorism, drug, religion, etc. I can't help to denounce it wherever
it appears.
Bruno
John K Clark
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