On Wednesday, April 17, 2013 1:09:21 PM UTC-4, John Clark wrote: > > On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 Bruno Marchal <mar...@ulb.ac.be <javascript:>>wrote: > > >> it is disconcerting to learn that after trying to make logical points >>> with somebody for over a year to find out that there is not the slightest >>> possibility of logic making any change whatsoever in their beliefs. >>> >> >>> >> > This is exactly what I and some others thought, and said, about your >> posts when you pretend to not understand, or to refute, the first person >> indeterminacy. >> > > I have no trouble understanding first person indeterminacy. I (the first > person) don't know with certainty (indeterminacy) what I am going to see > next and even if I did I wouldn't be certain what I would do next until I > did it. All that is crystal clear, however you claimed to have found a new > sort of indeterminacy unrelated to Quantum Mechanics or what Godel or > Turing found, and despite your repeated efforts I was unable to understand > that at all. With some embarrassment I admit that there have been times in > my life when I pretended to understand something when really I did not, but > I can honestly say that except maybe for a short time as a joke I can't > recall even one time that I pretended not to understand something when > really I did. Some would say I'm stupid enough as it is and don't need to > pretend to be any dumber than I am. > > > It is more easy to see the irrationality of others than of oneself >> apparently. >> > > In general that is certainly true but Bruno let me ask you a very serious > question, doesn't all this astrology stuff bother you and make you question > how you allocate your time? Doesn't it bother you to learn that Craig > Weinberg, somebody you have spent a lot of effort debating with, would say > things like "embody the Aquarian tension of revolutionary rationalism > symbolized by the Saturnian-Uranian co-rulership of Aquarius." and "With > their interesting combination of Mars in Libra squaring their Moon and > trining their Sun" and "The Neptune Saturn conjunction with the Jupiter > stellium in Neptune-ruled Pisce" and "There is nothing in numerology or > astrology which is even remotely as flaky as modern cosmology." and > "Astrology is extremely rational" ? I've got to tell you that finding out > that I have misjudged somebody that massively bothers the hell out of me. >
I can see why astrological terms would frighten you, but they are no different from any other specialized language. I will try to translate if it will make you feel any better: "embody the Aquarian tension of revolutionary rationalism symbolized by the Saturnian-Uranian co-rulership of Aquarius." = embody the inherent conflict within the rational futurist personality between its rebellious-pioneering-genius impulses and its reverent, intensely disciplined impulses. "With their interesting combination of Mars in Libra squaring their Moon and trining their Sun" = They are guys who like open challenges, have issues with their emotions but also natural leadership skills. These are people who are emotionally reluctant to interact with the public, but excel in the public role that they play. "The Neptune Saturn conjunction with the Jupiter stellium in Neptune-ruled Pisces" = Strong themes of maturity and suffering. The personality here is like stones worn smooth by the ocean. Devotion, sacrifice, melancholy...heavy concerns, serious lives contributing to events with looong term consequences. "There is nothing in numerology or astrology which is even remotely as flaky as modern cosmology." = Numerology is simple. Things with four sides have a certain, shall we say, stability to them, do they not? Doors, walls, windows, tables... squares and rectangles are good for reliable, utilitarian purposes. Numerology takes these kinds of intuitions about numbers and refines them to a very specific degree, mapping them to the letters of the alphabet - which also have inherent personalities when you examine them intensely. This is nothing but a heightened appreciation for the qualities of numbers and a projection of that appreciation onto names and birthdates. The amazing thing is that, confirmation bias or no, doing this yields consistently insightful views on personality. Astrology is the same but using the geometric relations which arise from the periodicity of the planets. It could be tree rings or ice cores, or anything that has a long term history of repetition and variation, but the planetary motions are ideal because they lend themselves to these signifying configurations. The archetypes of the zodiac do not necessarily have anything to do with the planets, they just fall out naturally from intuitive reflection. The logic that makes 1 independent, bold, and creative and 4 orderly and utilitarian, makes this zodiacal sequence of action-reaction-transaction X 4 a perpetual resource for archetypal insights. I found, for instance, that they can be applied to the stereotypes of the USA: http://stationlink.com/mystic/usmap.html You don't need to be afraid of these things because they are not supposed to be taken literally. Astrology and numerology are just ways of examining these subtle themes which run through any sufficiently rich set of experiences. "Astrology is extremely rational" Astrology is nothing but rational, but the 'belief' in astrology is not. This is not a hodge podge of random ideas, but a meticulously gathered canon of observation and interpretation over centuries. It has been rightly been called the sum total of the wisdom of the ancient world. Before computers, erecting an Astrology chart is about the most mathematically challenging task that could be undertaken. It required precision and patience, complex quantitative work. As I have mentioned previously, the Astrology software out there is quite excellent, not written by irrational goofballs but careful programmers committed to scientific accuracy. > I've got to tell you that finding out that I have misjudged somebody that massively bothers the hell out of me. I don't blame you. I thought that astrology was obviously bullshit for many years. I only reluctantly took a second look at it because I was so surprised at how well numerology seemed to work. It's not my fault though that reality is much different than you think it is. Congratulations, you're now a part of science. Craig > > John K Clark > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
