On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 4:04 PM, John Clark <johnkcl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 Telmo Menezes <te...@telmomenezes.com> wrote:
>
>> > I don't really understand why you insist that intelligence is a harder
>> > problem than consciousness.
>
>
> As I've said many times and people just shrug off,

John, I never shrugged off any of your ideas, I always considered
them. Maybe you're projecting a bit?

> Evolution figured out how
> to make a brain that produces intense emotion about 500 million years ago
> but it only figured out how to make intelligence, the sort of intelligence
> that we're proud of, a few hundred thousand years ago.  The facts are
> undeniable, either Charles Darwin was wrong or consciousness is a byproduct
> of intelligence. And I don't think Charles Darwin was wrong.

I don't think Charles Darwin ever wrote anything about consciousness.
Evolution is not a theory of consciousness. It's a theory on the
origin of biological complexity.

Again, you're creating a false dichotomy by using your dogma (not
Darwin's) that consciousness arrises from intelligence. But borrowing
Bruno's argument, will you be in Moscow or New York if you get
duplicated?

>>
>>  > I think we have very solid hypothesis on why some things behave
>> intelligently, you explained it yourself.
>
>
> We know why Evolution produced intelligence but not how.

Oh we know a lot about how already. It's just harder to grasp if you
reject emergence.

> I explained why
> Evolution selects for intelligence but does not select for consciousness,
> but If I knew the General Theory of Intelligence I'd be the richest man who
> ever lived, and I'm not. On the other hand just about everybody on this list
> has their own personal General Theory of Consciousness, and they're all
> different and they all work equally well; in other words they're all equally
> useless.
>
>>
>>  > We know nothing about consciousness
>
>
> So you're saying that after all the verbiage written about it on this list
> and all the electrons that have given their lives to discuss this subject on
> the internet the end result is that nobody knows anything or has anything of
> interest to say about consciousness. Well that doesn't sound too far from
> the truth to me, so maybe that means its time to think about something else.

I meant that we know nothing scientifically about consciousness.
Possibly because it's a problem outside of the scope of science. This
realisation is what makes me agnostic instead of atheist.

>>>
>>> >> as I said before, I personally would not work fine if I thought I was
>>> >> the only conscious being in the universe
>>>
>>
>> > Ok, but please notice -- this is exactly the same reason a lot of people
>> > claim for being religious. That they couldn't face life without god.
>
>
> Very true, and that would be a very good reason to believe in God with the
> truth of the matter being irrelevant. If someone really could not function
> without the belief in God (I doubt that many people actually fall into that
> category, but never mind) then the logical thing to do would be to believe
> in God even though that belief is false.

Ok.

> And in a similar way it's logically possible that I am the only conscious
> being in the universe, but it would be foolish of me to believe that is
> actually the case because that would render me non functional. And I think
> the same would be true of you unless you really are a intelligent zombie.

One possibility, of course, is that consciousness is the fundamental
stuff. That doesn't change the fact that me, as a particular
instantiation of that fundamental stuff, have a context and
experiences. I want to avoid pain and seek pleasure. I don't see how
believing in a single consciousness, for example, changes that.

>   John K Clark
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Everything List" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.


Reply via email to