On 01 May 2013, at 17:33, Telmo Menezes wrote to John Clark:
At this point I'm not even talking about Science but logic and a
distaste
for cheerfully and strongly believing in 2 contradictory things.
I believe that human intelligence is a product of Darwinian evolution
and I'm agnostic on consciousness. There is nothing contradictory
about this, but I can't think of any further way to make my point.
We'll have to disagree to disagree.
You shouldn't, perhaps.
May be it would be enough to just ask John Clark to push his logic a
bit further.
I agree that human intelligence is a product of Darwinian evolution,
but this assumes some mechanism, and thus Mechanism.
Then the discovery of the universal machine shows that machine
intelligence is a (logical) product of the elementary operations in
arithmetic.
Then machine can see their own limit, and are statistically forced to
guess in something which can't be a machine, as arithmetical truth,
for example.
We don't need to know what consciousness is.
If we can agree that consciousness is
1) undoubtable
2) incommunicable
3) invariant for digital substitution at some level.
Then we can understand that the mind body problem becomes a body
statistical-appearance problem in the whole of arithmetic (not just
the computable sigma_1, but the non computable pi_1, sigma_2,
pi_2, ..... up to arithmetical truth).
This generalizes both Darwin and Everett on arithmetic.
It shows a non negligible part of what the physical reality is the
border of.
Machines cannot not be religious.
It is unavoidable, unless you deliberately program them to not look
deep enough, ... of course.
And, btw, you are right with the 'artificial nets'. We will not make
intelligent machines, we will fish in the arithmetical ocean and
sometimes we get the chance to meet some-one, in some recognizable
ways. We might learn deep lessons in the exploration, though.
Bruno
http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
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