On 5/2/2013 7:02 AM, John Clark wrote:
On Wed, May 1, 2013, Telmo Menezes <te...@telmomenezes.com <mailto:te...@telmomenezes.com>> wrote:

    > Artificial neural networks have been trained to fly planes, invest in the 
    market, converts speech to text, recognise handwriting and so on and so on.


    > For most of these cases, nobody understands how the network works, they 
    understand how they created the necessary
    conditions for a certain behaviour to emerge.

Also true. So you know that under certain circumstances shit happens, and that's all that you need to know if you're just interested in how, but not if you also want to know why. So if you just wanted to know how to make a AI you could reverse engineer a human brain, you might not understand why your creation worked but that wouldn't stop it from working.

    > The first activity [science] offers public rewards

It helps you figure out how the world actually works not how you wish it works. And because what you've discovered is not just true for you but for the external world too I'd be interested to hear what you've found out.

    > the second only offers private rewards.

Well, I suppose navel gazing might lower the blood pressure in some people, but don't expect it to teach you anything important about the complexities of reality, otherwise you'll be as disappointed as the last hundred generation of navel gazers have been. And navel gazers turn into total bores as soon as they open their mouth because even if they really have found something it is only true for them.

Keep in mind that mathematics (including logic and computation theory) are done almost entirely by "navel gazing".

    > You freed yourself from the dogmas of Christianity but not from its 

Wow, calling a guy known for disliking religion religious, never heard that one before, at least I never heard it before I was 12.

        >> if you are a logical man then your doubts about the consciousness of 
        intelligent robot would be no greater than your doubts about the 
        of your fellow intelligent  human beings; and lets face it as a 
practical matter
        those doubts must be very very very very small.

    > From a Bayesian standpoint, we are disagreeing on the value of a prior. 
This has
    nothing to do with logic, we just place different bets on an unknown.

I don't understand, are you saying that you actually believe that it is likely that you are the only conscious being in the universe??

        >> If you believe that intelligence and consciousness are unrelated then
        logically there is no alternative, you must believe that Charles Darwin 
was  wrong.

    > That doesn't follow.

Like hell it doesn't!! You know for a fact that Evolution produced at least one being (and probably many billions) that was not just intelligent but conscious too, and there is absolutely positively no reason for Evolution to do that if intelligence and consciousness are unrelated.

That shows that they are related as implemented in Earth's biology, but it's not clear that can be generalized to concluded they must be related no matter how intelligence is implemented.


    > I believe that human intelligence is a product of Darwinian evolution and 
    agnostic on consciousness.

Then what I said before was entirely wrong, your views are not even close to being self consistent.

 John K Clark

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