On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 5:26 PM, Jason Resch <jasonre...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 4:23 PM, Stephen Paul King < > kingstephenp...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Brent, >> >> I think you may be reading my question in the wrong way. I didn't mean >> to equate your consciousness with that of every if/else decision you make, >> but rather ask something like, "What does the shortest possible program >> that is conscious look like?" >> >> I have trouble seeing why some short piece of code like: >> >> if (x > 0) then do y() else do z(); >> >> Is not conscious of some property of x (whether it is positive or >> negative), at least when the two different functions y() and z() cause the >> program to enter different states. >> >> I find it harder to justify the consciousness of a program that did not >> do any selection, distinction, or inspection. In most programming >> languages, this is done using a conditional statement, such as an "if >> statement", a "while statement" or a "switch statement". >> >> Jason >> *** >> Hi Jason, >> >> What plays the role of the abstract/platonic equation "if (x > 0) >> then do y() else do z();" such that there is an actual referent to be >> conscious of? >> > > In my example, I was referring to any implementation of such a program, > e.g. your own computer. > Right, but that goes against Bruno's Platonism (but it is consistent with my own anti-Platonism). The hardware that is implementing the program has (up to the Bekenstein bound) some specifiable properties that can act as the ersatz 'self'. > > > >> Consciousness is consciousness of ... >> >> > There is no infinite regression, the program is conscious of some property > of x, not conscious of its own knowledge of the property of x (in this > example code). Consider it as consciousness of a raw qualia like seeing > one pixel of white instead of one pixel of black. > Exactly, no infinite regress!! But there can be some finite regress of 'I am conscious of being conscious of...", just enough to get some approximation of a fixed point, ala Kleene. This is why Descartes was almost right with his "Theater" idea. > > Jason > > >> >> On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 5:18 PM, Jason Resch <jasonre...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 3:09 PM, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote: >>> >>>> On 5/2/2013 7:47 AM, Jason Resch wrote: >>>> >>>>> Would anyone here say that a conditional (e.g., "if/else") statement" >>>>> (in some program) is conscious? >>>>> >>>> >>>> I don't think so. We make if/else choices subconsciously all the time. >>>> My introspection tells me that conscious thought is a kind of narrative >>>> story I construct. I think the function of this is to condense my >>>> experience for memory and future reference when I need to plan or predict >>>> based on my past experience. If I were designing an intelligent Mars Rover >>>> that had to learn to deal with a wide variety of problems which I cannot >>>> anticipate, this sort of selective memory narrative would be one component >>>> of it's learning. >>>> >>>> Of course there are different levels of consciousness. A Mars Rover >>>> needs a conception of "self" as being in certain place, having completed >>>> certain tasks, having certain capabilities, etc. But it doesn't need to >>>> consider its status among peers or reflect on its own computational methods >>>> or its ultimate end. >>>> >>>> Brent >>>> >>>> >>> Brent, >>> >>> I think you may be reading my question in the wrong way. I didn't mean >>> to equate your consciousness with that of every if/else decision you make, >>> but rather ask something like, "What does the shortest possible program >>> that is conscious look like?" >>> >>> I have trouble seeing why some short piece of code like: >>> >>> if (x > 0) then do y() else do z(); >>> >>> Is not conscious of some property of x (whether it is positive or >>> negative), at least when the two different functions y() and z() cause the >>> program to enter different states. >>> >>> I find it harder to justify the consciousness of a program that did not >>> do any selection, distinction, or inspection. In most programming >>> languages, this is done using a conditional statement, such as an "if >>> statement", a "while statement" or a "switch statement". >>> >>> Jason >>> >>> >>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> I think such statements may form the atoms of consciousness, as they >>>>> represent the point at which a program's behavior diverges based on the >>>>> inspection of some information. >>>>> >>>>> Conditional statements are required for any kind of intelligent or >>>>> responsive behavior, which might be why consciousness correlates with it. >>>>> >>>>> Jason >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to >>>> everything-list+unsubscribe@**googlegroups.com<everything-list%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com> >>>> . >>>> >>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>> everything-list@googlegroups.**com<everything-list@googlegroups.com> >>>> . >>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/** >>>> group/everything-list?hl=en<http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en> >>>> . >>>> For more options, visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/**groups/opt_out<https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out> >>>> . >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the >>> Google Groups "Everything List" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/everything-list/K7E-Vfwj4QU/unsubscribe?hl=en >>> . >>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to >>> everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> >>> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en >>> . >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>> >>> >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> >> >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the > Google Groups "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this topic, visit > https://groups.google.com/d/topic/everything-list/K7E-Vfwj4QU/unsubscribe?hl=en > . > To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to > everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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