On Wed, May 1, 2013 at 6:26 PM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:
> On 01 May 2013, at 17:33, Telmo Menezes wrote to John Clark:
>>> At this point I'm not even talking about Science but logic and a distaste
>>> for cheerfully and strongly believing in 2 contradictory things.
>> I believe that human intelligence is a product of Darwinian evolution
>> and I'm agnostic on consciousness. There is nothing contradictory
>> about this, but I can't think of any further way to make my point.
>> We'll have to disagree to disagree.
> You shouldn't, perhaps.
> May be it would be enough to just ask John Clark to push his logic a bit
> I agree that human intelligence is a product of Darwinian evolution, but
> this assumes some mechanism, and thus Mechanism.
> Then the discovery of the universal machine shows that machine intelligence
> is a (logical) product of the elementary operations in arithmetic.
> Then machine can see their own limit, and are statistically forced to guess
> in something which can't be a machine, as arithmetical truth, for example.
> We don't need to know what consciousness is.
> If we can agree that consciousness is
> 1) undoubtable
> 2) incommunicable
> 3) invariant for digital substitution at some level.
I believe in 3) but not with 100% certainty. Isn't it possible that,
in fact, I was created just a couple of hours ago by adding the
molecules of the food I had for lunch to my body, and that before I
was someone else and we just happen to share the same (now fake)
memories. I don't think this is the case, but can I be sure?
> Then we can understand that the mind body problem becomes a body
> statistical-appearance problem in the whole of arithmetic (not just the
> computable sigma_1, but the non computable pi_1, sigma_2, pi_2, ..... up to
> arithmetical truth).
> This generalizes both Darwin and Everett on arithmetic.
> It shows a non negligible part of what the physical reality is the border
> Machines cannot not be religious.
> It is unavoidable, unless you deliberately program them to not look deep
> enough, ... of course.
I like your ideas, but I still lack the technical knowledge in some of
the steps to feel confortable using them.
> And, btw, you are right with the 'artificial nets'. We will not make
> intelligent machines, we will fish in the arithmetical ocean and sometimes
> we get the chance to meet some-one, in some recognizable ways. We might
> learn deep lessons in the exploration, though.
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