On 11 Jul 2013, at 14:12, Alberto G. Corona wrote:

I quote myself:
"But the religious instinct in the primitive sense is not about love and compassion, but the contrary it is about fanaticism and exclusion of these that are not in agreement. "

I might believe the contrary. What you say could make sense for very local religion and we might argue on what a religion is, but I am "universalist" on this matter, and religion is what can unite people and help to recognize oneself in the others. It cannot exclude the others and it go in the direction of love and compassion, but also circumspection toward dividing ideas.






This is incomplete: the fanaticism and the exclusion is there for well stablished game theoretical reasons: to create a strong boundary between collaborators and non collaborators, and thus to reinforce collaboration. Reasoning in terms of game theory sacrifice is the unavoidable requirement for stablishing that boundary.

I understand this at the level of biology, where such boundaries are needed. But the divine, if used for identity and boundaries purpose seems to be closer to blasphemy and pseudo-religion.




Unavoidably, when there social capital is reduced to this group and there is no other form of spiritual union beyond the sect, the sacrifices become stronger and stronger, since even the life depend on the group , to be safe from the attack of other groups. The first and the last sacrifice is, of course, human sacrifices. to kill non sectarians. and to demonstrate that one has the will and the disposition to kill.

Hmm... That looks again more like the terrestrial game of life.



That is what the sacrifice of Christ free us from, and it is the unavoidable destiny of a society that leave their Christian beliefs.

I am not sure I understand.



This happened in a few years in Germany and communist countries for only a matter of example.

You might elaborate because I feel like I am missing something.

Bruno







2013/7/11 Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be>

On 10 Jul 2013, at 23:05, Alberto G. Corona wrote:

I do not exactly agree. since religion is a natural inclination, and atheists have no organized religion

It depends on which atheist sect you talk about. It is an hard subject because those sect are secret. I know them as I leave them, and like all sect, it is a difficult task to say the least.




then the religious way of thinking permeate all their lives. I´m not trying to be pejorative. But the religious instinct in the primitive sense is not about love and compassion, but the contrary it is about fanaticism and exclusion of these that are not in agreement.

Yes.




And it is about sacrifices to demonstrate the worthiness of each one for the sectarian group.

Chiristianity in this sense gives freedom from this primitive, sectarian, sacrifice demanding instinct and canalizes it in positive ways.

There too it will depend on which sect or branch of christianity you talk about.

Bruno






2013/7/10 Roger Clough <rclo...@verizon.net>
I am amazed these days at the antagonism atheists hold against religion. I suppose it has to be that way, for there is a natural draw of men toward religion. And if their rejection weren't so oversized, they might fall victim to religion-- that is, to learn humility, and be filled, without any worth or work on their own,
with faith, hope, and love.

How torturous.


Dr. Roger B Clough NIST (ret.) [1/1/2000]
See my Leibniz site at
http://independent.academia.edu/RogerClough


Dr. Roger B Clough NIST (ret.) [1/1/2000]
See my Leibniz site at
http://independent.academia.edu/RogerClough

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