On 12 Jul 2013, at 19:47, meekerdb wrote:

On 7/12/2013 7:03 AM, Alberto G. Corona wrote:
The sacrifice of Christ paid our deeds -once and for all- for being worth and appreciated by other human beings. The belief on that calm our innate desire to demand the sacrifice of the others for us and the desire to sacrifice ourseves.

I was with you, Alberto, up that point. The sacrifice of Christ, which was demanded by his Father, was for expiation of sins. Not to show he was willing to sacrifice for the tribe. Not to show he was a team player. It was displaced revenge. It showed God was justified in visiting great punishment on disbelievers; punishment so great that killing His own son exemplified His wrath. This was part and parcel of the threat of eternal torture and slaying His enemies. "See how ruthless I can be. See how seriously I take your impiety. I kill my own son in expiation."

And his followers learned this lesson and applied it to the Cathars, the Protestants, the Muslims, and Hitler visited it on the Jews. Not that it's unique to Christianity or even to religion - as you note, any tribe can adopt a dogma and defend it with bloodshed.

Brent
“There is another form of temptation, even more fraught with danger. This is the disease of curiosity…. It is this which draws us to try and discover the secrets of nature, those secrets which are beyond our understanding, which can avail us nothing, and which man should not wish to learn.”
        -- St. Augustine


Yeah, ... Augustine said terrible things, and that quote is a good illustration of "bad faith", which is really the "don't ask" philosophy used by those appealing to the authoritative arguments. Now Augustine saves a large part of Plato making the Christians still less wrong than vindicative atheism when compared to comp, and Augustine statement must be relativized because of the use of violence in his neighborhood.

I give you an heuristic: if a religion use even an atom of argument per authority, then you can know that it is incompatible with computationalism. In a sense, comp trust God enough to do the advertising all by Itself, and there is no intermediate between your Conscience and the Unnameable. Theurgy might still be possible, but only, to quote Alan watts, if the priest can blink.

Bruno





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