On 13 Jul 2013, at 21:06, meekerdb wrote:

On 7/13/2013 1:51 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
Irreversibility of first person experience can be recovered from reversible computation.

That would be statistical irreversibility, i.e. reversal is improbable but not impossible.

Why? Not necessarily. It can be 100% irreversible from the machine's point of view.

Indeed some universal machine are reversible (billiard ball, quantum computer, etc.).

But isn't there a distinction between reversible and irreversible computations? Doesn't the UD do both of them?

Yes. The main difference is that irreversible computation needs "energy" (can be virtual), and reversible does not. Erasing memory is what cost energy in computation, but "erasing memory" can be simulated by dissociation or discarding information. Quantum computations are both Turing universal and reversible, like the SWE.

Yes, I know. But since you propose that a world is a kind of bundle over threads of computations, it seems that having irreversible computations in that thread would imply the world is irreversible. Yet all the fundamental physics models are reversible.

That would mean that among the universal dovetailing in arithmetic, the reversible computations win the "measure competition", or that the first person plural emerging on that universal dovetailing is governed by some Turing Universal group. The last case is encouraged by the material "hypostases", but it is too early to decide. Having irreversible computations in the base ontology does not necessarily implies that the physical laws are irreversible, because the physical itself is an emerging pattern from the first (plural) points of view, which abstracts itself from the delays in the universal dovetailing.



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