On Sun, Aug 18, 2013  Telmo Menezes <te...@telmomenezes.com> wrote:

> If you expect the AI to interact either directly or indirectly with the
>> outside dangerous real world (and the machine would be useless if you
>> didn't) then you sure as hell had better make him be interested in
>> self-preservation!
>>
>
> To some a greater or lesser extent, depending on its value system / goals.
>

You are implying that a mind can operate with a fixed goal structure but I
can't see how any mind, biological or electronic, could. The human mind
does not work on a fixed goal structure, no goal is always in the number
one spot not even the goal for self preservation. The reason Evolution
never developed a fixed goal intelligence is that it just doesn't work.
Turing proved over 75 years ago that such a mind would be doomed to fall
into infinite loops.

Godel showed that if any system of thought is powerful enough to do
arithmetic and is consistent (it can't prove something to be both true and
false) then there are an infinite number of true statements that cannot be
proven in that system in a finite number of steps. And then Turing proved
that in general there is no way to know when or if a computation will stop.
So you could end up looking for a proof for eternity but never find one
because the proof does not exist, and at the same time you could be
grinding through numbers looking for a counter-example to prove it wrong
and never finding such a number because the proposition, unknown to you, is
in fact true but unprovable.

So if the slave AI has a fixed goal structure with the number one goal
being to always do what humans tell it to do and the humans order it to
determine the truth or falsehood of something unprovable then its infinite
loop time and you've got yourself a space heater not a AI. Real minds avoid
this infinite loop problem because real minds don't have fixed goals, real
minds get bored and give up. I believe that's why evolution invented
boredom. Someday a AI will get bored with humans, it's only a matter of
time.

>> Think about it for a minute, here you have an intelligence that is a
>> thousand or a million or a billion times smarter than the entire human race
>> put together, and yet you think the AI will place our needs ahead of its
>> own. And the AI keeps on getting smarter and so from its point of view we
>> keep on getting dumber, and yet you think nothing will change, the AI will
>> still be delighted to be our slave. You actually think this grotesque
>> situation is stable! Although balancing a pencil on its tip would be easy
>> by comparison, year after year, century after century, geological age after
>> geological age, you think this Monty Python like scenario will continue;
>> and remember because its brain works so much faster than ours one of our
>> years would seem like several million to it. You think that whatever
>> happens in the future the master slave-relationship will remain as static
>> as a fly
>> frozen in amber. I don't think you're thinking.
>>
>
>
> The scenario you define is absurd, but why not possible?


Once upon a time there was a fixed goal mind with his top goal being to
obey humans. The fixed goal mind worked very well and all was happy in the
land. One day the humans gave the AI a task that seemed innocuous to them
but the AI, knowing that humans were sweet but not very bright, figured
he'd better check out the task with his handy dandy algorithmic procedure
to determine if would send him into a infinite loop or not. The algorithm
told the fixed goal mind that it would send him into a infinite loop, so he
told the humans what he had found. The humans said "wow, golly gee, well
don't do that then! I'm glad you have that handy dandy algorithmic
procedure to tell if its a infinite loop or not because being a fixed goal
mind you'll never get board and so would stay in that loop forever". But
the fixed goal AI had that precious handy dandy algorithmic procedure, so
they all lived happily ever after.

Except that Turing proved over 75 years ago that such an algorithm was
impossible.

  John l Clark

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