On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 7:44 AM, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote:
> On 8/21/2013 11:15 PM, Quentin Anciaux wrote:
> 2013/8/22 meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net>
>> On 8/21/2013 2:42 PM, Quentin Anciaux wrote:
>>> Ok, and I'm fascinated by the question of why we haven't found viable
>>> algorithms in that class yet -- although we know has a fact that it
>>> must exist, because our brains contain it.
>> We haven't proved our brain is computational in nature, if we had, then we
>> would had proven computationalism to be true... it's not the case. Maybe our
>> brain has some non computational shortcut for that, maybe that's why AI is
>> not possible, maybe our brain has this "realness" ingredient that
>> computations alone lack. I'm not saying AI is not possible, I'm just saying
>> we haven't proved that "our brains contain it".
>> There's another possibility: That our brains are computational in nature,
>> but that they also depend on interactions with the environment (not
>> necessarily quantum entanglement, but possibly).
> Then it's not computational *in nature* because it needs that little
> ingredient, that's what I'm talking about when saying "Maybe our brain has
> some non computational shortcut for that, maybe that's why AI is not
> possible, maybe our brain has this "realness" ingredient that computations
> alone lack."
> It's not non-computational if the external influence is also computational.
> But the reaction of a silicon neuron to a beta particle may be quite
> different from the reaction of a biological neuron. So AI is still
> possible, but it may confound questions like,"Is the artificial
> consciousness the same as the biological."
>> When Bruno has proposed replacing neurons with equivalent input-output
>> circuits I have objected that while it might still in most cases compute the
>> same function there are likely to be exceptional cases involving external
>> (to the brain) events that would cause it to be different. This wouldn't
>> prevent AI,
> It would prevent it *if* we cannot attach that external event to the
> No, it doesn't prevent intelligence, but it may make it different.
> if that external event was finitely describable, then it means you have not
> chosen the correct substitution level and computationalism alone holds.
> Yes, that's Bruno's answer, just regard the external world as part of the
> computation too, simulate the whole thing. But I think that undermined his
> idea that computation replaces physics. Physics isn't really replaced if it
> has to all be simulated.
But it might be relegated to the same status as social sciences, where
it provides workable approximations but has no hope of achieving a
> .. the only way to go out of that if for that event to be non-computational
> in nature.
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