On 01 Oct 2013, at 17:48, John Clark wrote:

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On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 8:42 AM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be>wrote:> Your reasoning would show that in Everett QM, where we have alsomany different futures,Yes.> but as Everett explained, the indeterminacy remains, it justbecome first personForget Everett, forget Quantum Mechanics, even in pure Newtonianphysics subjective indeterminacy exists because of lack ofinformation. If you knew the exact speed things were moving at andthe coefficient of friction and the aerodynamic drag on the ball ina Roulette Wheel you could figure out what number the wheel wouldproduce, but you don't so the number is indeterminate for you. Bigdeal.

`You miss the nuance between the origin of the indeterminacies, but`

`that's OK with me, as you seem to agree with the 1/2 in the self-`

`duplication, so I look forward hearing you on step 4.`

> Just give us an algorithm refuting that first person indeterminacy.You want me to give you a algorithm that can generate importantinformation with absolutely nothing to work with? I have no suchalgorithm.

`If you don't have an algorihm, then, given that you have agreed that`

`you will survive (not die) in that experience, and given that you have`

`agreed all possibilities are lived as unique by the continuers, this`

`confession means that you do agree there is an uncertainty.`

Again, proceed.

On the TV game show "Let's Make a Deal" Monty Hall (God in yourterminology) knows with absolute certainty exactly which of the 3doors the car is behind, but you're just a contestant and don't haveall the information that Monty has, so for you the position of thecar is indeterminate and all you can do is play the odds.A new car is behind one door and a goat behind the other two, youpick a door at random and Monty opens a door you didn't pick andshows you a goat and gives you the opportunity to change your choiceof a door if you wish. Monty knows what door the prize is behind andyou do not, so Monty could pick the correct door with a probabilityof 100% but the best you can do at first is 33.3%, after he lets youchange your choice and pick another door you know a little more andyour probability increases to 66.6%, Monty's probability stays at100% and the thing itself, the new car, has no probability at all.If Everett is right then it's exactly the same for a electron, ithas no probability at all and indeterminacy is just a measure of ourlack of information; if Copenhagen is right then probability is aninherent part of the electron itself.

No problem with any of this.

`Please proceed to step 4, or explain why you do not want to proceed,`

`as you said once.`

`In step 4, you are still read and annihilated in Helsinki, the`

`information to build the copy are still sent to Washington and Moscow,`

`but in Moscow the reconstitution is delayed for one year.`

`The protocol is known by the candidate person in Helsinki, and the`

`question is the same as in step 3. What do you expect to live when`

`pushing on the button, will it be statistically different, etc.`

Bruno

John K ClarkThe last one you gave was directly refuted by both copies after theduplication.Bruno http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ --You received this message because you are subscribed to the GoogleGroups "Everything List" group.To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. --You received this message because you are subscribed to the GoogleGroups "Everything List" group.To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.

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