On 12 Oct 2013, at 19:40, Richard Ruquist wrote:

Bruno: We need only a good dreamer, and the discovery of the relative universal numbers

Richard: Who other than humans can do that?

? The answer is the Löbian number (the so called sufficiently rich theories, which exists in arithmetic, in a variety of relative way).

We might argue that only humans can build huge telescopes and see the far away galaxies, but this would not imply that those galaxies needs humans to exist.

Bruno: The UD generates the human before evolution. Do you claim that humans change the past?

No, because the physical past is an indexical which eventually subsume the whole UD*, and thus some part of arithmetic.

Richard: So humans do not evolve. Sounds like creationism.

I was just referring to the fact that the UD will generates a program emulating you, before generating the complete emulation of the possible quantum vacuum fluctuation leading to the actual story of the universe.

Evolution, is, most plausibly a statistically exact account of our local history.

So far you have not dismissed my inference that comp needs humans to work.

Some alien can also bet that they have a brain, and that it is Turing emulable. In arithmetic there are infinities of numbers which, relatively to some universal number arrives at that same conclusion (and in this case we know that they are correct). Do you think we need humans for having the truth that 1+1=2? If you agree we don't, then we don't humans to have the larger set of löbian numbers and their dreams, from which physical realities emerges.

IMO if true, that in itself dismisses comp as contrary to established science.

We need humans only to explain comp to humans, but comp is basically the idea that machine/numbers can manifest consciousness in their relevant relative environment/computations.



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