On 13 Oct 2013, at 12:56, Richard Ruquist wrote:
Bruno: ? The answer is the Löbian number (the so called sufficiently
rich theories, which exists in arithmetic, in a variety of relative
way).
Richard: If the Lobian number exists, why are humans or aliens
needed at all?
They are needed like the number 1879600442671119229 is needed.
Once all löbian numbers exist, humans and aliens exists because they
are Löbian numbers, among many.
Bruno: I was just referring to the fact that the UD will generates a
program emulating you, before generating the complete emulation of
the possible quantum vacuum fluctuation leading to the actual story
of the universe.
Richard: Are you saying that I existed before the universe? In what
realm did I exist?
In the realm of elementary arithmetic.
It contains infinitely many computations going through you actual
states.
Apparently we share many of those computations. We have to explain why.
We can succeed only in deriving the physical laws from that complex
computations statistics.
That's the result: a problem for the computationalist.
I illustrate how to solve the problem in a way which takes into
account what machines (us) can really justify about us, and what is
true about us, but that we cannot justify.
This takes unavoidable intensional nuances which are helpful to avoid
the elimination of consciousness and persons, and to provide an
arithmetical interpretation of Plotinus and Plato.
Bruno
On Sun, Oct 13, 2013 at 3:42 AM, Bruno Marchal <[email protected]>
wrote:
On 12 Oct 2013, at 19:40, Richard Ruquist wrote:
Bruno: We need only a good dreamer, and the discovery of the
relative universal numbers
Richard: Who other than humans can do that?
? The answer is the Löbian number (the so called sufficiently rich
theories, which exists in arithmetic, in a variety of relative way).
We might argue that only humans can build huge telescopes and see
the far away galaxies, but this would not imply that those galaxies
needs humans to exist.
Bruno: The UD generates the human before evolution. Do you claim
that humans change the past?
No, because the physical past is an indexical which eventually
subsume the whole UD*, and thus some part of arithmetic.
Richard: So humans do not evolve. Sounds like creationism.
I was just referring to the fact that the UD will generates a
program emulating you, before generating the complete emulation of
the possible quantum vacuum fluctuation leading to the actual story
of the universe.
Evolution, is, most plausibly a statistically exact account of our
local history.
So far you have not dismissed my inference that comp needs humans
to work.
Some alien can also bet that they have a brain, and that it is
Turing emulable. In arithmetic there are infinities of numbers
which, relatively to some universal number arrives at that same
conclusion (and in this case we know that they are correct).
Do you think we need humans for having the truth that 1+1=2? If you
agree we don't, then we don't humans to have the larger set of
löbian numbers and their dreams, from which physical realities
emerges.
IMO if true, that in itself dismisses comp as contrary to
established science.
We need humans only to explain comp to humans, but comp is basically
the idea that machine/numbers can manifest consciousness in their
relevant relative environment/computations.
Bruno
http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
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