Bruno,

Even in my Metaverse String cosmology I can understand how from the
beginning of the Metaverse how its machine can generate all Lobian numbers
including arithmetic humans and aliens long before our universe exists and
evolves conscious physical beings. What I do not understand is why those
physical beings are needed.

You say they are needed as much a a particular number is needed. But that I
do not understand. Particular numbers I presume are included in all the
Lobian numbers. so why are physical beings needed?


It seems to me, especially in view of MWI, that the machine generates
everything to begin with including the passage of time. But you seem to
claim that physical beings are needed to generate all Lobian numbers. That
I do not understand at all.
Richard


On Sun, Oct 13, 2013 at 10:47 AM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:

>
> On 13 Oct 2013, at 12:56, Richard Ruquist wrote:
>
> Bruno: ? The answer is the Löbian number (the so called sufficiently rich
> theories, which exists in arithmetic, in a variety of relative way).
>
> Richard: If the Lobian number exists, why are humans or aliens needed at
> all?
>
>
> They are needed like the number 1879600442671119229 is needed.
>
> Once all löbian numbers exist, humans and aliens exists because they are
> Löbian numbers, among many.
>
>
>
>
>
> Bruno: I was just referring to the fact that the UD will generates a
> program emulating you, before generating the complete emulation of the
> possible quantum vacuum fluctuation leading to the actual story of the
> universe.
>
> Richard: Are you saying that I existed before the universe? In what realm
> did I exist?
>
>
> In the realm of elementary arithmetic.
>
> It contains infinitely many computations going through you actual states.
>
> Apparently we share many of those computations. We have to explain why.
> We can succeed only in deriving the physical laws from that complex
> computations statistics.
>
> That's the result:  a problem for the computationalist.
>
> I illustrate how to solve the problem in a way which takes into account
> what machines (us) can really justify about us, and what is true about us,
> but that we cannot justify.
> This takes unavoidable intensional nuances which are helpful to avoid the
> elimination of consciousness and persons, and to provide an arithmetical
> interpretation of Plotinus and Plato.
>
> Bruno
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 13, 2013 at 3:42 AM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:
>
>>
>> On 12 Oct 2013, at 19:40, Richard Ruquist wrote:
>>
>> Bruno: We need only a good dreamer, and the discovery of the relative
>> universal numbers
>>
>> Richard: Who other than humans can do that?
>>
>>
>> ? The answer is the Löbian number (the so called sufficiently rich
>> theories, which exists in arithmetic, in a variety of relative way).
>>
>> We might argue that only humans can build huge telescopes and see the far
>> away galaxies, but this would not imply that those galaxies needs humans to
>> exist.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Bruno: The UD generates the human before evolution. Do you claim that
>> humans change the past?
>>
>>
>> No, because the physical past is an indexical which eventually subsume
>> the whole UD*, and thus some part of arithmetic.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Richard: So humans do not evolve. Sounds like creationism.
>>
>>
>> I was just referring to the fact that the UD will generates a program
>> emulating you, before generating the complete emulation of the possible
>> quantum vacuum fluctuation leading to the actual story of the universe.
>>
>> Evolution, is, most plausibly a statistically exact account of our local
>> history.
>>
>>
>>
>> So far you have not dismissed my inference that comp needs humans to work.
>>
>>
>> Some alien can also bet that they have a brain, and that it is Turing
>> emulable. In arithmetic there are infinities of numbers which, relatively
>> to some universal number arrives at that same conclusion (and in this case
>> we know that they are correct).
>> Do you think we need humans for having the truth that 1+1=2? If you agree
>> we don't, then we don't humans to have the larger set of löbian numbers and
>> their dreams, from which physical realities emerges.
>>
>>
>>
>> IMO if true, that in itself dismisses comp as contrary to established
>> science.
>>
>>
>> We need humans only to explain comp to humans, but comp is basically the
>> idea that machine/numbers can manifest consciousness in their relevant
>> relative environment/computations.
>>
>> Bruno
>>
>>
>>
>>  http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
>>
>>
>>
>>
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