On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 5:56 PM, meekerdb <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 10/18/2013 1:38 PM, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > > On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 11:27 AM, meekerdb <[email protected]> wrote: > >> On 10/18/2013 12:26 AM, Jason Resch wrote: >> >> >> >> >> *On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 10:03 PM*, meekerdb <[email protected]>wrote: >> >>> On 10/17/2013 6:04 PM, LizR wrote: >>> >>> On 18 October 2013 13:42, Jason Resch <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> The basis problem is no different from the "present" problem under >>>> special relativity: If we exist in many times across space time, why do we >>>> find ourselves in this particular "now"? >>>> >>>> I don't know about the basis problem, but the now problem is simple >>> to solve - we don't find ourselves in a particular now, find ourselves in >>> all the nows. >>> >>> >>> But *I *don't find myself in all the nows. Why not? >>> >> >> I've highlighted the answer for you. Why should anyone (including you) >> take the word of one particular Brent from one particular time, that other >> Brents do not find themselves in other times? >> >> >>> Note that in some basis I *am* in a superposition. >>> >> >> How does the theory of mind you are operating under predict what being >> in a superposition should feel like? >> >> >> First, my theory of mind makes mind dependent on classical processes in >> a physical brain - so it explains why experiences are of the classical. >> > > Okay. > > >> But Bruno's theory takes experience as logically prior to the physical. >> So he can't appeal to the physical aspects of the brain to make experience >> classical. >> > > He assumes this when he says our consciousness is supported by a Turing > emulable process. Turing machines are classical. > > >> >> Second, you and I are in superpositions relative to some bases. So how >> does it feel? >> >> > Let me make sure I understand the question. Let us say we are in a > metal box (like Schrodinger's cat), and we measure the spin state of some > electron's y-axis. Outside of this box, there is an observer, and from his > perspective, we within the box remain in a super position of having > measured both states. You are asking what it feels like to the person > inside the box in the superposition, from the perspective of the person > outside the box? > > If so, I think the answer is rather clear. It doesn't matter what the > person outside the box thinks, within the box the electron's spin is no > longer in the superposition, and neither is the person who measured it. > Their experiences have diverged. From the perspective of the person outside > the box, they know that the person inside will be performing the > measurement and has split. Had they known the entire state of the wave > function within the box, they could predict it is now in a superposition > where one observer has measured and written down "spin is up", and the > other where the observer has written "spin is down", but even from the > perspective of this external observer, he does not find any state in the > evolved wavefunction of the box where the two observers have some kind of > shared memory of seeing both states. > > > That's a Copenhagen description in which superpositions are destroyed > instead of just being dispersed into the enivronment. > Is that still the case is the box is completely isolated from the outside environment, such that the superposition can remain within the box from the perspective of those outside? > If you take MWI seriously the whole system (including the observers) are > in superpositions and to say that the observers see either "spin-up" or > "spin-down" is assuming that there is some projection operator that neatly > separates the superpositions in that basis. > Can't the whole superposition of the entire universe simply exist? Why do we need to indicate some particular basis? What purpose does the "projection operator" serve? > But to say that is the preferred basis is to beg the question. Not > begging the question is "the basis problem". > What is the basis problem? Thanks, Jason -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
