On 30 October 2013 00:37, Craig Weinberg <whatsons...@gmail.com> wrote:

>> >> Physics is what happens in the natural world due to natural processes.
>> >
>> >
>> > That sentence should win some kind of prize for containing the most
>> > logical
>> > fallacies.
>> I suppose you could say causes outside of the physical universe, such
>> as God or top-down causation by consciousness, are part of nature and
>> part of physics, but most people would not use these words this way.
> From my view, there is no public physical universe that is not also private
> physical experience. There is no unseen light, no unheard sound, to unfelt
> bodies. To me, "outside the physical universe" means only a dream or
> imagination, where what is felt is uncoupled from public effect. While we
> dream, our body remains present in its inertial frame of animal experience,
> but it has no perspective of its own.
> People's words are outdated. We have played out a hand that was picked
> centuries ago by dead geniuses. Since then we have not had a chance to pause
> and reassess what the strange new ideas of Einstein and Heisenberg really
> mean when we look at the implications of them from the absolute perspective.
> We have been playing with gigantic machines to study the fantastically
> distant and tiny, but no matter how far we go, it increasingly doesn't make
> sense when compared with our own experience, and it increasingly doesn't
> make sense itself.
> Multisense Realism is a way to acknowledge that this has become a wild goose
> chase, and posits that if we start over from scratch, it becomes more
> sensible to see relativity as identical to perceived awareness, and all
> physical forces naturally fall out of that awareness as elaboration of
> sensory motive inertia. Two different feelers sharing the same feeling are
> entangled. They are not particles but if a third feeler will feel a
> particulate stimulation from them. Space and time might be created here, by
> the disentanglement - the indifference and entropy which extends out in
> response to the significance of making a difference with sense interaction.
> Craig

Consciousness is not externally detectable. If it were, we would not
be having these discussions: instead, we would wave the Consciousness
Detector over the computer and read out the result. So if
consciousness has top-down causal efficacy, that would mean an
undetectable force caused matter to move. In experiments, that would
look like a magical or supernatural effect. If you don't like the
words "magical" or "supernatural" then use different words, but no
such strange effects have been observed.

Stathis Papaioannou

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