Bruno wrote:  "In a sense, with comp, the illusions and dreams are more
real that the stuff we imagine, which are useful fictions."

Dreams and illusions are not stuff we imagine? How do you differentiate?


On Sat, Nov 16, 2013 at 3:49 PM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:

>
> On 16 Nov 2013, at 11:32, Telmo Menezes wrote:
>
>  On Sat, Nov 16, 2013 at 5:22 AM, Samiya Illias <samiyaill...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Never mind who said it. Considering what we know of quantum mechanics, is
>>> everything real made of everything unreal? Does that mean that
>>> everything is
>>> actually unreal, a holograph, a reflection of our mind, if that is real?
>>>
>>
>> As Bruno said, "real" is not properly defined. If you interview some
>> random person on the street, you are likely to get something like
>> real=material. Under that definition, I think most of us would agree
>> with the quote. But this is a naive and uninteresting definition of
>> real.
>>
>> I have a friend who's a psychiatrist and likes the definition: "real
>> is what does not go away when you stop believing it". He likes it
>> because it's useful to him, because it helps with therapy in many
>> cases. I think this definition will also run into problems with comp.
>> It already runs into problems even with Plato and his cave. But he has
>> it easy, because his job is just to guide people into a state of
>> consciousness where they can hopefully have a life with less
>> suffering. Of course, the buddhists might argue that he's not doing it
>> right :)
>>
>> I think Bruno might agree with this: 2 + 2 + 4 is real.
>>
>
> Yes, 2+2+4 is real, and 2+2=4 is true.
>
> If the base theory is arithmetic, 2+2+4 is the same object as
> s(s(s(s(s(s(s(s(0)))))))). If we use the combinators instead, 2+2+4 would
> be the name of some complex combinators, and would seem less primitive and
> more like a derived element, making the objective reality a bit of a
> convention, almost. What counts are the illusions from inside. They don't
> depend on the choice of the absic reality. In a sense, with comp, the
> illusions and dreams are more real that the stuff we imagine, which are
> useful fictions.
>
> Bruno
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>>> On Sat, Nov 16, 2013 at 9:11 AM, Jesse Mazer <laserma...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I suspect this is one of those fake quotes that gets circulated around
>>>> the
>>>> internet; searching for "everything we call real" and "bohr" on
>>>> books.google.com I mostly just find it in various religious/spiritual
>>>> books,
>>>> nothing scholarly (and nothing dating back to before 1986).
>>>>
>>>> Jesse
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 10:51 PM, Samiya Illias <samiyaill...@gmail.com
>>>> >
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Neils Bohr is famously quoted as saying: 'Everything we call real is
>>>>> made
>>>>> of things that cannot be regarded asreal. If quantum mechanics hasn't
>>>>> profoundly shocked you, you haven't understood it yet.”
>>>>> What's your take on this?
>>>>>
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>
> http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
>
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