I call this, my glass jaw theology. A glass jaw in Boxing is someone who may be
a great fighter, but get's knocked out if you hit him in the jaw, hence, a
glass jaw as a term. A weakness, a flaw, an Achilles heel. I visualize my
theology as a product from a expert glass blower, who produces a thin, bubble
of glass, freshly, picked up from the glass furnace, and air blown in by the
glass maker to form a glass bubble. Extremely, fragile, and not long to
survive. So, my theology is, as an attempt to answer the how questions of
science, to better know the Why, questions, of theology and philosophy. This is
definitely a single mind's theology, and perhaps, not worth seeing the light of
day? Here it is, trying to answer the How questions. My end-goal, is the How,
of an afterlife, while relying on the things we all know. Go ahead, and shoot
it down, if anyone is interested. Likely, such questions will be found too
annoying to respond to, which I respect.
I invoke the Holographic Principle, stating that we are a 3D project of a 2D
thing. 10x123 bits of data, applied with the Beckenstein Bound. I also bring in
quantum teleportation, aka the EPR Effect, where test after test indicates that
particles are acting, instantaneously, no matter what the distance, that they
are parts of the same thing. I do not contend that this is tachyon
communication, which may never be possible. But something does appear linked
and linked instantaneously. To all this, I will add the real-world practice of
Storage Area Networks, the modern means to back up, simultaneously, data,
information, programs, etc. So, in this theology, we will survive due to the
universe possessing a read-write head, and continually, writes the continuity
of who, and what we are, continuing in memory, in this far-off server farm, of
the Universe.
In this hypothesis of my theology, I must acknowledge that I am using, or
mal-using, elements of modern physics, and physicists. This includes people
like Jakob Bekenstein, the Beckensten Bound, Anton Zeilinger and Nicholas
Gisin with quantum teleportation studies, as well as Leonard Susskind with
holographic theory, and physicist, Jack Sarfatti, who focuses on all manner of
cosmology, but also the holographic universe. I am openly, ripping off all
these guys, because hey, its a theology. I ain't writing a paper to ARXIV, or
Physical Review Letters, for instance. I do give attribution though,
attribution which none of these scientists want!
Go ahead and kick the crap out of it, and have fun.
Mitch
-----Original Message-----
From: Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be>
To: everything-list <everything-list@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Fri, Nov 29, 2013 12:55 pm
Subject: Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment
On 28 Nov 2013, at 21:19, meekerdb wrote:
On 11/28/2013 5:52 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 27 Nov 2013, at 23:36, meekerdb wrote:
On 11/27/2013 7:03 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 26 Nov 2013, at 18:56, John Clark wrote:
On Sun, Nov 24, 2013 at 4:32 AM, Bruno Marchal
<marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:
> Atheism is also the belief in NO afterlife,
Those are 2 separate ideas and there is no reason they
must be linked. There could be a God and no afterlife
or a afterlife and no God; or neither could exist or
both could.
If you are able to conceive a god without afterlife, it means
you can conceive a non Christian God, which is nice, but
contradicts the main atheist statements you already did in
preceding conversations.
How does being able to conceive a non-Christian God
contradict being an atheist?? I can conceive many different gods
that I don't believe in.
Can you conceive a God in which you do believe?
That was for John Clark who defined once God by the Christian God.
Also, if you can conceive a Non Christian God, it becomes more
difficult to *believe* in the non existence of God.
I can conceive of (with apologies to H. L. Mencken), Agdistis or
Angdistis, Ah Puch, Ahura Mazda, Alberich, Allah, Amaterasu, An, Anansi,
Anat, Andvari, Anshar, Anu, Aphrodite, Apollo, Apsu, Ares, Artemis,
Asclepius, Athena, Athirat, Athtart, Atlas, Baal, Ba Xian, Bacchus, Balder,
Bast, Bellona, Bergelmir, Bes, Bixia Yuanjin, Bragi, Brahma, Brent, Brigit,
Camaxtli, Ceres, Ceridwen, Cernunnos, Chac, Chalchiuhtlicue, Charun,
Chemosh, Cheng-huang, Clapton, Cybele, Dagon, Damkina (Dumkina), Davlin,
Dawn, Demeter, Diana, Di Cang, Dionysus, Ea, El, Enki, Enlil, Eos, Epona,
Ereskigal, Farbauti, Fenrir, Forseti, Fortuna, Freya, Freyr, Frigg, Gaia,
Ganesha, Ganga, Garuda, Gauri, Geb, Geong Si, Guanyin, Hades, Hanuman,
Hathor, Hecate (Hekate), Helios, Heng-o (Chang-o), Hephaestus, Hera, Hermes,
Hestia, Hod, Hoderi, Hoori, Horus, Hotei, Huitzilopochtli, Hsi-Wang-Mu,
Hygeia, Inanna, Inti, Iris, Ishtar, Isis, Ixtab, Izanaki, Izanami, Jesus,
Juno, Jehovah, Jupiter, Juturna, Kagutsuchi, Kartikeya, Khepri, Ki, Kingu,
Kinich Ahau, Kishar, Krishna, Kuan-yin, Kukulcan, Kvasir, Lakshmi, Leto,
Liza, Loki, Lugh, Luna, Magna Mater, Maia, Marduk, Mars, Mazu, Medb,
Mercury, Mimir, Min, Minerva, Mithras, Morrigan, Mot, Mummu, Muses, Nammu,
Nanna, Nanna (Norse), Nanse, Neith, Nemesis, Nephthys, Neptune, Nergal,
Ninazu, Ninhurzag, Nintu, Ninurta, Njord, Nugua, Nut, Odin, Ohkuninushi,
Ohyamatsumi, Orgelmir, Osiris, Ostara, Pan, Parvati, Phaethon, Phoebe,
Phoebus Apollo, Pilumnus, Poseidon, Quetzalcoatl, Rama, Re, RheaSabazius,
Sarasvati, Selene, Shiva, Seshat, Seti (Set), Shamash, Shapsu, Shen Yi,
Shiva, Shu, Si-Wang-Mu, Sin, Sirona, Sol, Surya, Susanoh, Tawaret, Tefnut,
Tezcatlipoca, Thanatos, Thor, Thoth, Tiamat, Tianhou, Tlaloc, Tonatiuh,
Toyo-Uke-Bime, Tyche, Tyr, Utu, Uzume, Vediovis, Venus, Vesta, Vishnu,
Volturnus, Vulcan, Xipe, Xi Wang-mu, Xochipilli, Xochiquetzal, Yam, Yarikh,
YHWH, Ymir, Yu-huang, Yum Kimil and Zeus. But I see no reason to believe any
of them exist.
Which means it is up to you to prove that none of those Gods can exist. But the
ONE is not anyone of those, as it has no name.
A god, with a name, that might be a comp reason to disbelieve in it, or to try
to look who is hiding beyond the name.
Nice list, though :)
We might try to decide on a definition of "atheism", as that
notion is very unclear, and I have rarely obtain a definition
on which atheists agreed.
It's as clear as the negation of 'theist'.
But "theist" is not clear.
My point exactly.
OK.
Some identify "God" with the God of their own culture. In science, we
try to get a concept as independent of human and culture as possible.
I use "God" in the greek sense of Truth (the one that we can
search about us, or hope or fear, in life and afterlife,
whatever it is).
Except nobody here is speaking Greek. And the Greeks had
plenty of gods that had nothing to do with truth; in fact they were
given to deception.
I was of course alluding to the greek (neo)platonists. They did
invented the God used by both the abramanic cultures (even if terribly
deformed, notably by the abandon of science about it, and the use of
authoritative arguments, by Christians, Muslims, and perhaps by the
Jewish (with Maimonides, to some extent).
Christianity, specifically Aquinas and Augustine, tried to merge Greek
philosophy into the Jewish Messianic religion of Christianity. But the
abrahamic religions owe far more to the Babylonian, Egyptian, and
Zoroastrian religions than to Greek.
They might owe even far more to the Löbian numbers.
It is not because we have found strong evidence that the Earth is NOT
flat, that Earth has disappeared. We just correct our theory of
Earth. Why couldn't we do that with the notion of God?
Well for one thing, we can point to the Earth and say "That."
OK. That's harder for a platonist. "That" is not a proof (I can do that in
dream about anything).
In all case, "that" is a theory (even if that one is hard wired in the
necessity to take seriously our neighborhood).
In comp, "that" is an indexical.
And such method does not apply to any transcendental theory of reality, be it
string theory of arithmetic, or machine's theology.
Shall we just correct our theory of Vulcan and instead of it being a
planet identical to Earth but which is always behind the Sun it will be a
conceptual planet that has no observable effects but which we will say it
exists in the mathematical way: It satisfies some propositions. Then we can
keep the word "Vulcan" and persecute whoever denies its existence.
On the contrary, if vulcan can't kick back to me in a way or another, I prefer
to forget the idea.
With comp, primitive matter is like that vulcan: it has no observable effect
(unless comp is false, and that makes comp testable).
Bruno
Brent
Bruno
Brent
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