On 29 Nov 2013, at 07:56, Samiya Illias wrote:
I understand that so many deities and faith-systems and all the
myths and fantasies in them easily put off any thinking mind. Yet,
the more we discover, the closer we get to theorizing about
everything, the more difficult it is to believe that everything just
happens on its own. We may not be able to describe or imagine God,
but it is also not possible to honestly dismiss a existence of a
Deity!
I agree.
In fact no self-referentially correct machines can miss Her (or Him,
or It, or That ...). But it is not entirely related to what we
discover, as this can be illusions, or shadows.
I do agree also with Quentin, "God" as a concept should not be used as
an explanation, as it is the most mysterious thing ever. So we should
not even postulate it.
Compare with Arithmetic. Our intuition of numbers, or more generally
arithmetical truth, is implicit and cannot be axiomatized in any way.
Yet, some of those intuitions are sharable, and we *can* assume them,
and then proceed from those assumptions to agree on consequences. But
that process would make no sense without the arithmetical reality,
from which we start, and this despite we cannot define it.
So God cannot be part of any sharable *theory*, even if it is what we
share the better, (more or less consciously), just because it has no
name, no image, ..., etc. It truly transcend us. There are
similarities with the "set of all sets" which cannot be a set. But
this can also be slightly misleading.
Greeks Platonists got this right (with respect to computationalism),
and that is why they separated "God" (truth, the one) with the
Intelligible (the world of ideas, the Noùs), or the world made of what
exist (like the numbers, the dreaming machines, ...). God is no member
of the Intelligible, it is beyond being. Like arithmetical truth, it
is responsible for what exists, but Itself does not exist, in the
sense of the existence of the ideas. Nor does matter, which for them
is below being, and is where God loses control, and is identified with
the Evil. (no need to follow them on this: in comp the only "evil"
character brought by matter is that it can hurt).
Bruno
On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 6:26 AM, LizR <lizj...@gmail.com> wrote:
But if everything's holy... well, you know the rest.
On 29 November 2013 14:02, Platonist Guitar Cowboy <multiplecit...@gmail.com
> wrote:
I don't think size/length of the list matters much, lol!
Crazy Ginsberg's list was shorter and he and his publishers
apparently see reason for them to exist:
Footnote to Howl
By Allen Ginsberg
Holy! Holy! Holy! Holy! Holy! Holy! Holy! Holy! Holy! Holy! Holy!
Holy! Holy! Holy! Holy!
The world is holy! The soul is holy! The skin is holy! The nose is
holy! The tongue and cock and hand and asshole holy!
Everything is holy! everybody’s holy! everywhere is holy! everyday
is in eternity! Everyman’s an angel!
The bum’s as holy as the seraphim! the madman is holy as you my soul
are holy!
The typewriter is holy the poem is holy the voice is holy the
hearers are holy the ecstasy is holy!
Holy Peter holy Allen holy Solomon holy Lucien holy Kerouac holy
Huncke holy Burroughs holy Cassady holy the unknown buggered and
suffering beggars holy the hideous human angels!
Holy my mother in the insane asylum! Holy the cocks of the
grandfathers of Kansas!
Holy the groaning saxophone! Holy the bop apocalypse! Holy the
jazzbands marijuana hipsters peace peyote pipes & drums!
Holy the solitudes of skyscrapers and pavements! Holy the cafeterias
filled with the millions! Holy the mysterious rivers of tears under
the streets!
Holy the lone juggernaut! Holy the vast lamb of the middleclass!
Holy the crazy shepherds of rebellion! Who digs Los Angeles IS Los
Angeles!
Holy New York Holy San Francisco Holy Peoria & Seattle Holy Paris
Holy Tangiers Holy Moscow Holy Istanbul!
Holy time in eternity holy eternity in time holy the clocks in space
holy the fourth dimension holy the fifth International holy the
Angel in Moloch!
Holy the sea holy the desert holy the railroad holy the locomotive
holy the visions holy the hallucinations holy the miracles holy the
eyeball holy the abyss!
Holy forgiveness! mercy! charity! faith! Holy! Ours! bodies!
suffering! magnanimity!
Holy the supernatural extra brilliant intelligent kindness of the
soul!
Berkeley
1955
I believe both Brent and Allen. And the Sun... Dunno much about
their existence though. PGC
On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 1:03 AM, LizR <lizj...@gmail.com> wrote:
On 29 November 2013 09:19, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote:
I can conceive of (with apologies to H. L. Mencken), Agdistis or
Angdistis, Ah Puch, Ahura Mazda, Alberich, Allah, Amaterasu, An,
Anansi, Anat, Andvari, Anshar, Anu, Aphrodite, Apollo, Apsu, Ares,
Artemis, Asclepius, Athena, Athirat, Athtart, Atlas, Baal, Ba Xian,
Bacchus, Balder, Bast, Bellona, Bergelmir, Bes, Bixia Yuanjin,
Bragi, Brahma, Brent, Brigit, Camaxtli, Ceres, Ceridwen, Cernunnos,
Chac, Chalchiuhtlicue, Charun, Chemosh, Cheng-huang, Clapton,
Cybele, Dagon, Damkina (Dumkina), Davlin, Dawn, Demeter, Diana, Di
Cang, Dionysus, Ea, El, Enki, Enlil, Eos, Epona, Ereskigal,
Farbauti, Fenrir, Forseti, Fortuna, Freya, Freyr, Frigg, Gaia,
Ganesha, Ganga, Garuda, Gauri, Geb, Geong Si, Guanyin, Hades,
Hanuman, Hathor, Hecate (Hekate), Helios, Heng-o (Chang-o),
Hephaestus, Hera, Hermes, Hestia, Hod, Hoderi, Hoori, Horus, Hotei,
Huitzilopochtli, Hsi-Wang-Mu, Hygeia, Inanna, Inti, Iris, Ishtar,
Isis, Ixtab, Izanaki, Izanami, Jesus, Juno, Jehovah, Jupiter,
Juturna, Kagutsuchi, Kartikeya, Khepri, Ki, Kingu, Kinich Ahau,
Kishar, Krishna, Kuan-yin, Kukulcan, Kvasir, Lakshmi, Leto, Liza,
Loki, Lugh, Luna, Magna Mater, Maia, Marduk, Mars, Mazu, Medb,
Mercury, Mimir, Min, Minerva, Mithras, Morrigan, Mot, Mummu, Muses,
Nammu, Nanna, Nanna (Norse), Nanse, Neith, Nemesis, Nephthys,
Neptune, Nergal, Ninazu, Ninhurzag, Nintu, Ninurta, Njord, Nugua,
Nut, Odin, Ohkuninushi, Ohyamatsumi, Orgelmir, Osiris, Ostara, Pan,
Parvati, Phaethon, Phoebe, Phoebus Apollo, Pilumnus, Poseidon,
Quetzalcoatl, Rama, Re, RheaSabazius, Sarasvati, Selene, Shiva,
Seshat, Seti (Set), Shamash, Shapsu, Shen Yi, Shiva, Shu, Si-Wang-
Mu, Sin, Sirona, Sol, Surya, Susanoh, Tawaret, Tefnut, Tezcatlipoca,
Thanatos, Thor, Thoth, Tiamat, Tianhou, Tlaloc, Tonatiuh, Toyo-Uke-
Bime, Tyche, Tyr, Utu, Uzume, Vediovis, Venus, Vesta, Vishnu,
Volturnus, Vulcan, Xipe, Xi Wang-mu, Xochipilli, Xochiquetzal, Yam,
Yarikh, YHWH, Ymir, Yu-huang, Yum Kimil and Zeus. But I see no
reason to believe any of them exist.
Hey, what's that about Amaterasu? She obviously exists!
(Admittedly we tend to call her "the Sun" nowadays :-)
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