On 11/30/2013 3:44 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 29 Nov 2013, at 23:59, meekerdb wrote:
On 11/29/2013 9:55 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 28 Nov 2013, at 21:19, meekerdb wrote:
On 11/28/2013 5:52 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 27 Nov 2013, at 23:36, meekerdb wrote:
On 11/27/2013 7:03 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 26 Nov 2013, at 18:56, John Clark wrote:
On Sun, Nov 24, 2013 at 4:32 AM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be
<mailto:marc...@ulb.ac.be>> wrote:
> Atheism is also the belief in NO afterlife,
Those are 2 separate ideas and there is no reason they must be linked. There
could be a God and no afterlife or a afterlife and no God; or neither could exist
or both could.
If you are able to conceive a god without afterlife, it means you can conceive a
non Christian God, which is nice, but contradicts the main atheist statements you
already did in preceding conversations.
How does being able to conceive a non-Christian God contradict being an atheist??
I can conceive many different gods that I don't believe in.
Can you conceive a God in which you do believe?
That was for John Clark who defined once God by the Christian God.
Also, if you can conceive a Non Christian God, it becomes more difficult to
*believe* in the non existence of God.
I can conceive of (with apologies to H. L. Mencken), Agdistis or Angdistis, Ah Puch,
Ahura Mazda, Alberich, Allah, Amaterasu, An, Anansi, Anat, Andvari, Anshar, Anu,
Aphrodite, Apollo, Apsu, Ares, Artemis, Asclepius, Athena, Athirat, Athtart, Atlas,
Baal, Ba Xian, Bacchus, Balder, Bast, Bellona, Bergelmir, Bes, Bixia Yuanjin, Bragi,
Brahma, Brent, Brigit, Camaxtli, Ceres, Ceridwen, Cernunnos, Chac, Chalchiuhtlicue,
Charun, Chemosh, Cheng-huang, Clapton, Cybele, Dagon, Damkina (Dumkina), Davlin,
Dawn, Demeter, Diana, Di Cang, Dionysus, Ea, El, Enki, Enlil, Eos, Epona, Ereskigal,
Farbauti, Fenrir, Forseti, Fortuna, Freya, Freyr, Frigg, Gaia, Ganesha, Ganga,
Garuda, Gauri, Geb, Geong Si, Guanyin, Hades, Hanuman, Hathor, Hecate (Hekate),
Helios, Heng-o (Chang-o), Hephaestus, Hera, Hermes, Hestia, Hod, Hoderi, Hoori,
Horus, Hotei, Huitzilopochtli, Hsi-Wang-Mu, Hygeia, Inanna, Inti, Iris, Ishtar, Isis,
Ixtab, Izanaki, Izanami, Jesus, Juno, Jehovah, Jupiter, Juturna, Kagutsuchi,
Kartikeya, Khepri, Ki, Kingu, Kinich Ahau, Kishar, Krishna, Kuan-yin, Kukulcan,
Kvasir, Lakshmi, Leto, Liza, Loki, Lugh, Luna, Magna Mater, Maia, Marduk, Mars, Mazu,
Medb, Mercury, Mimir, Min, Minerva, Mithras, Morrigan, Mot, Mummu, Muses, Nammu,
Nanna, Nanna (Norse), Nanse, Neith, Nemesis, Nephthys, Neptune, Nergal, Ninazu,
Ninhurzag, Nintu, Ninurta, Njord, Nugua, Nut, Odin, Ohkuninushi, Ohyamatsumi,
Orgelmir, Osiris, Ostara, Pan, Parvati, Phaethon, Phoebe, Phoebus Apollo, Pilumnus,
Poseidon, Quetzalcoatl, Rama, Re, RheaSabazius, Sarasvati, Selene, Shiva, Seshat,
Seti (Set), Shamash, Shapsu, Shen Yi, Shiva, Shu, Si-Wang-Mu, Sin, Sirona, Sol,
Surya, Susanoh, Tawaret, Tefnut, Tezcatlipoca, Thanatos, Thor, Thoth, Tiamat,
Tianhou, Tlaloc, Tonatiuh, Toyo-Uke-Bime, Tyche, Tyr, Utu, Uzume, Vediovis, Venus,
Vesta, Vishnu, Volturnus, Vulcan, Xipe, Xi Wang-mu, Xochipilli, Xochiquetzal, Yam,
Yarikh, YHWH, Ymir, Yu-huang, Yum Kimil and Zeus. But I see no reason to believe any
of them exist.
Which means it is up to you to prove that none of those Gods can exist.
Just because I, or someone else, can conceive of them? Is that how you accept the
burden of proof - you must either believe in whatever anyone conceives of or else
provide a disproof?
Well, you are the one saying that no Gods exist,
No, I said I see no reason to believe in them. You said that being able to conceive of
gods makes it hard to disbelieve in God. I'm saying it is only when you conceive of
something that you can say you fail to believe it exists. Otherwise you don't know what
you are denying.
so you are the one pretending having a clear referent for each of the name above, and
you are the one acting like if you knew that none exist.
Right. Of course I don't have clear referent of each one, but someone did. They were
worshiped and prayed to and sacrificed for. But being able to conceive of them is what
makes it possible say I don't believe in them - otherwise I wouldn't know what I was
failing to believe. It doesn't make it harder to disbelieve; it makes it *possible*.
Atheists, like fundamentalists often talk like if they were not ignorant in those
matter. but in science, not only we are ignorant, but the very subject is denied by some
scientists (when atheists).
People like Gödel and Einstein where pissed of by "free-thinkers" and "atheists",
because they were quite aware of their dogmatic attitude. I would have read them about
that subject, I would have been less naive, and probably run away from them.
Atheism and fundamentalist theism is really the same. Same God, same Matter. And same
violent responses against the doubter and the agnostics. Same visceral negative attitude
against the application of the scientific attitude in the theological field.
I'm fine with applying the scientific attitude to the theological field. And it is
characteristic of science that it does not confirm theories, but sometimes refutes or
makes theories very improbable. The theory that the world was created by a superperson who
cares about humans and judges them and will reward or punish them and answer prayers, the
theory known as "theism", has been tested and found false.
But the ONE is not anyone of those, as it has no name.
A god, with a name, that might be a comp reason to disbelieve in it, or to try to look
who is hiding beyond the name.
Exactly! And "God" is a name.
It is a NickName, pointing on the one without name, and in theology, it is the most
common term used. To change its name would be to give an importance of the name. It is
the axiom one about God, "It has no name", a bit like the tao, which once named is no
more the tao.
No it's not a nickname, that's why it is capitalized. You just like to use it because
some atheists gave you a hard time. Otherwise you could call it "reality" or "the tao" or
something else not implying theism (see definition above).
Brent
Bruno
Nice list, though :)
Credit to Mencken.
Brent
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