On 11/30/2013 3:44 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:


On 29 Nov 2013, at 23:59, meekerdb wrote:

On 11/29/2013 9:55 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:

On 28 Nov 2013, at 21:19, meekerdb wrote:

On 11/28/2013 5:52 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:

On 27 Nov 2013, at 23:36, meekerdb wrote:

On 11/27/2013 7:03 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:

On 26 Nov 2013, at 18:56, John Clark wrote:


On Sun, Nov 24, 2013 at 4:32 AM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be <mailto:marc...@ulb.ac.be>> wrote:

    > Atheism is also the belief in NO afterlife,


Those are 2 separate ideas and there is no reason they must be linked. There could be a God and no afterlife or a afterlife and no God; or neither could exist or both could.

If you are able to conceive a god without afterlife, it means you can conceive a non Christian God, which is nice, but contradicts the main atheist statements you already did in preceding conversations.

How does being able to conceive a non-Christian God contradict being an atheist?? I can conceive many different gods that I don't believe in.

Can you conceive a God in which you do believe?

That was for John Clark who defined once God by the Christian God.

Also, if you can conceive a Non Christian God, it becomes more difficult to *believe* in the non existence of God.

I can conceive of (with apologies to H. L. Mencken), Agdistis or Angdistis, Ah Puch, Ahura Mazda, Alberich, Allah, Amaterasu, An, Anansi, Anat, Andvari, Anshar, Anu, Aphrodite, Apollo, Apsu, Ares, Artemis, Asclepius, Athena, Athirat, Athtart, Atlas, Baal, Ba Xian, Bacchus, Balder, Bast, Bellona, Bergelmir, Bes, Bixia Yuanjin, Bragi, Brahma, Brent, Brigit, Camaxtli, Ceres, Ceridwen, Cernunnos, Chac, Chalchiuhtlicue, Charun, Chemosh, Cheng-huang, Clapton, Cybele, Dagon, Damkina (Dumkina), Davlin, Dawn, Demeter, Diana, Di Cang, Dionysus, Ea, El, Enki, Enlil, Eos, Epona, Ereskigal, Farbauti, Fenrir, Forseti, Fortuna, Freya, Freyr, Frigg, Gaia, Ganesha, Ganga, Garuda, Gauri, Geb, Geong Si, Guanyin, Hades, Hanuman, Hathor, Hecate (Hekate), Helios, Heng-o (Chang-o), Hephaestus, Hera, Hermes, Hestia, Hod, Hoderi, Hoori, Horus, Hotei, Huitzilopochtli, Hsi-Wang-Mu, Hygeia, Inanna, Inti, Iris, Ishtar, Isis, Ixtab, Izanaki, Izanami, Jesus, Juno, Jehovah, Jupiter, Juturna, Kagutsuchi, Kartikeya, Khepri, Ki, Kingu, Kinich Ahau, Kishar, Krishna, Kuan-yin, Kukulcan, Kvasir, Lakshmi, Leto, Liza, Loki, Lugh, Luna, Magna Mater, Maia, Marduk, Mars, Mazu, Medb, Mercury, Mimir, Min, Minerva, Mithras, Morrigan, Mot, Mummu, Muses, Nammu, Nanna, Nanna (Norse), Nanse, Neith, Nemesis, Nephthys, Neptune, Nergal, Ninazu, Ninhurzag, Nintu, Ninurta, Njord, Nugua, Nut, Odin, Ohkuninushi, Ohyamatsumi, Orgelmir, Osiris, Ostara, Pan, Parvati, Phaethon, Phoebe, Phoebus Apollo, Pilumnus, Poseidon, Quetzalcoatl, Rama, Re, RheaSabazius, Sarasvati, Selene, Shiva, Seshat, Seti (Set), Shamash, Shapsu, Shen Yi, Shiva, Shu, Si-Wang-Mu, Sin, Sirona, Sol, Surya, Susanoh, Tawaret, Tefnut, Tezcatlipoca, Thanatos, Thor, Thoth, Tiamat, Tianhou, Tlaloc, Tonatiuh, Toyo-Uke-Bime, Tyche, Tyr, Utu, Uzume, Vediovis, Venus, Vesta, Vishnu, Volturnus, Vulcan, Xipe, Xi Wang-mu, Xochipilli, Xochiquetzal, Yam, Yarikh, YHWH, Ymir, Yu-huang, Yum Kimil and Zeus. But I see no reason to believe any of them exist.


Which means it is up to you to prove that none of those Gods can exist.

Just because I, or someone else, can conceive of them? Is that how you accept the burden of proof - you must either believe in whatever anyone conceives of or else provide a disproof?

Well, you are the one saying that no Gods exist,

No, I said I see no reason to believe in them. You said that being able to conceive of gods makes it hard to disbelieve in God. I'm saying it is only when you conceive of something that you can say you fail to believe it exists. Otherwise you don't know what you are denying.

so you are the one pretending having a clear referent for each of the name above, and you are the one acting like if you knew that none exist.

Right. Of course I don't have clear referent of each one, but someone did. They were worshiped and prayed to and sacrificed for. But being able to conceive of them is what makes it possible say I don't believe in them - otherwise I wouldn't know what I was failing to believe. It doesn't make it harder to disbelieve; it makes it *possible*.


Atheists, like fundamentalists often talk like if they were not ignorant in those matter. but in science, not only we are ignorant, but the very subject is denied by some scientists (when atheists).

People like Gödel and Einstein where pissed of by "free-thinkers" and "atheists", because they were quite aware of their dogmatic attitude. I would have read them about that subject, I would have been less naive, and probably run away from them.

Atheism and fundamentalist theism is really the same. Same God, same Matter. And same violent responses against the doubter and the agnostics. Same visceral negative attitude against the application of the scientific attitude in the theological field.

I'm fine with applying the scientific attitude to the theological field. And it is characteristic of science that it does not confirm theories, but sometimes refutes or makes theories very improbable. The theory that the world was created by a superperson who cares about humans and judges them and will reward or punish them and answer prayers, the theory known as "theism", has been tested and found false.





But the ONE is not anyone of those, as it has no name.

A god, with a name, that might be a comp reason to disbelieve in it, or to try to look who is hiding beyond the name.

Exactly!  And "God" is a name.

It is a NickName, pointing on the one without name, and in theology, it is the most common term used. To change its name would be to give an importance of the name. It is the axiom one about God, "It has no name", a bit like the tao, which once named is no more the tao.

No it's not a nickname, that's why it is capitalized. You just like to use it because some atheists gave you a hard time. Otherwise you could call it "reality" or "the tao" or something else not implying theism (see definition above).

Brent


Bruno





Nice list, though :)

Credit to Mencken.

Brent

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com <mailto:everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com <mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.

http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ <http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/%7Emarchal/>



--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.

Reply via email to