On 02 Dec 2013, at 00:13, Jesse Mazer wrote:

Most theistic philosophers and theologians who have considered the issue agree that God did not create the laws of math and logic,

Yes. After St-Thomas, most catholic theologian agree that God cannot make 17 into a composite number. God obeys to logic, and nobody is interested in an inconsistent God. This does not really limit his "power", in fact without being consistent, God would become trivial. For the same reason, everythingers can believe only in all possible *consistent* things, and "consistency" is the modal possibility in provability logic. The cul-de-sac world still make "inconsistency" consistent, without introducing an "inconsistent reality". That's part of the explanation of the mind in comp, and an explanation of why a travel "near inconsistency" is possible, and that's probably part of the computationalist job. You don't have world satisfying false (which would be an inconsistent reality", stretching a little bit the vocabulary), but we do have world (for G), in which we have provable("false"), indeed that the syntactical way to say we are in a cul-de-sac world.




and does not have the power to alter them (or any other "necessary" truths, which for theists might include things like moral rules, or qualities of God such as omnipotence). Do you think the Mandelbrot set, or any other piece of pure mathematics, functions without a government, or are mathematical rules themselves a form of government even if God didn't create them? Certainly most atheists now think the universe follows mathematical laws, and one could even adopt Max Tegmark's idea and speculate that our universe is just another part of the uncreated Platonic realm of mathematical forms.


But that speculation cannot make sense if we assume that we are machine. Indeed if we are machine, our first person experience are distributed in the mathematical (actually arithmetical is enough) structure, and the physical reality is not a mathematical structure among others, but a mathematical (biological, psychological, theological) phenomenon, which makes us (us = the universal machine) believe in some big "universal machine". This predicts that below our level of substitution, we must see the trace of "parallel universe", and this is confirmed by (Everett) theory, as as far as it works which seems to be the case until now. Tegmark still use an Aristotelian identity theory (mind-body) which is incoherent with computationalism. That is why he must "speculate". Once we assume comp, there is no need to speculate on a mathematical universe, as the "universe" does not exist per se, but has to be a persistent and invariant mind construct of all universal machine/ number, and this in a completely testable way, as the beliefs in laws of physics should all be extracted from (Robinson) Arithmetic. The mathematical "hypothesis" was already a theorem in the comp theory. Tegmark missed the FPI, which breaks the Aristotelian identity thesis, and eventually breaks the whole Aristotelian theological paradigm of the (weak) materialists (the materialism of the believer in primitive matter). It is a bit weird, as Tegmark interprets correctly QM (with respect to comp) and Everett QM already break the aristotelian identity thesis, imo.

Bruno






On Sunday, December 1, 2013, Roger Clough wrote:
How can a grown man be an atheist ?

An atheist is a person who believes that the universe can
function without some form of government.

How silly.


Dr. Roger B Clough NIST (ret.) [1/1/2000]
See my Leibniz site at
http://independent.academia.edu/RogerClough


        
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