On 18 Dec 2013, at 00:30, meekerdb wrote:

On 12/17/2013 11:39 AM, LizR wrote:
On 18 December 2013 07:32, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote:

But I don't have to believe true=exists.

It seems to me this parallels your comment that the difference between "maths and matter" is that we can prove that mathematical truths are true (or words to that effect - sorry posting in haste. Hope you know what I mean!)

I think I do.


Plus existence isn't a well defined notion, altho I did have a go earlier.

I think of "exists" as relative to a domain. So there "exists" a divisor of 17 is true in arithmetic. But if "exists" is well defined that means your domain is not reality (or more precisely you can't assert that it's reality).

Why?
It depends of your starting assumptions. If you assume comp, then the fundamental reality is given by any universal system, and you can take elementary arithmetic, which prevent to treachery of using something already inspired by physics.




Reality is stuff you can point to.

I point to stuff in all my nocturnal dreams. I have no problem with "physical reality" is stuff you can point to. But that stuff is an appearance emerging from s sum of infinities of computations (by step 7 and perhaps 8).




I think this is compatible with Bruno's theory. In his theory reality is not computable and therefore is never completely definite.

The outer reality is "well defined" (arithmetical truth, in 3p). The inner (inside arithmetic, 1p views) are never *completely* definable, including plausibly physics (rather well defined but hard to circumscribe: open problem).

We got three physics (S4Grz1, Z1*, X1*). I rarely insist on that, but it occurs to me that this might explains some mystical reports, and some psychotropic experience reports. We get *three* "multiverses", and the soul can travel in between (apparently).

Bruno


http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/



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