On Fri, Dec 20, 2013 at 6:14 PM, Stephen Paul King < stephe...@provensecure.com> wrote:

> Dear LizR, > > Is math "in our heads" or is it somehow "out there". If it is "out > there" how does it connect to what is in our heads? > Mathematicians simulate other objects and realities using their heads, computers, or paper, etc. to learn and discover their properties. This is no different than some alien who lives in a different universe, simulating the laws of our own universes, and learning about galaxies, red-shift, black holes, etc. These things might have no correlation to anything in the universe of the alien, but you might rightfully ask "where does the information about black holes and red-shift come from?", the answer in both cases is the same: simulation of other mathematical structures. Jason > If it is all in our heads, what does that say about Arithmetic Realism? I > am trying to get back to some basic concepts... > > > On Fri, Dec 20, 2013 at 6:28 PM, LizR <lizj...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> On 21 December 2013 08:12, Stephen Paul King >> <stephe...@provensecure.com>wrote: >> >>> Dear Jason, >>> >>> I think it was you that wrote (to me): >>> "I was not defending that view, but pointing out how ridiculous it >>> would be to suppose mathematical truth does not exist before it is found by >>> someone somewhere." >>> >>> I am trying to get some thought going. Why is it so ridiculous, >>> exactly? If there exists a mathematical theorem that requires >>> a countable infinity of integers to represent, no finite version can exist >>> of it, in other words, can its proof be found? What is it that "makes it >>> true"? If we remove the possibility of ever proving a theorem, what is that >>> theorem's possible truth value? >>> >>> The maths that describes the behaviour of physical systems must be true >> whether anyone knows about it or not, so long as those physical systems >> continue to operate in the same manner. For example the inverse square law >> was true for billions of years before life evolved on Earth, and for >> billions more before Newton discovered it, as can be shown by observing >> distant galaxies. >> >> It also seems unlikely that simple arithmetic didn't work until Ug the >> caveman (or woman) discovered it. The big bang seems to have done >> nucleosynthesis by adding particles together quite happily when presumably >> there was no one around to know about it. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the >> Google Groups "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/everything-list/1NWmK1IeadI/unsubscribe >> . >> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to >> everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> >> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> > > > > -- > > Kindest Regards, > > Stephen Paul King > > Senior Researcher > > Mobile: (864) 567-3099 > > stephe...@provensecure.com > > http://www.provensecure.us/ > > > “This message (including any attachments) is intended only for the use of > the individual or entity to which it is addressed, and may contain > information that is non-public, proprietary, privileged, confidential and > exempt from disclosure under applicable law or may be constituted as > attorney work product. If you are not the intended recipient, you are > hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution, or copying of > this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this > message in error, notify sender immediately and delete this message > immediately.” > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.