On Saturday, December 21, 2013 4:15:58 AM UTC-5, Jason wrote: > > > > > If you say they are not conscious because they are only made of > mathematical relations, then you are admitting philosophical zombies exist. >
If you assume that mathematical relations are conscious because they remind us of ourselves, then you are denying that puppets exist. > > Otherwise, there would be patterns within these numbers that behave as if > they are conscious, write books about consciousness, have philosophy > courses on consciousness, etc. I say if the patterns that exist in these > functions talk about, and question their own subjective experiences, cry in > pain, and in all ways behave as if they are conscious, then they are > conscious. > By that reasoning, If I see a painting of an artist painting themselves in a mirror, then I must assume that the figure the canvas is the painter of the painting. > These arithmetical truths exists independently of our verification of them > via simulation on physical computers. > But arithmetic truths may not "exist" independently of *all* verification. Without the possibility of sensory experience in which arithmetical truths are presented directly, there is no reason to suppose any sort of "existence" at all. The fact of arithmetic truth makes sensory experience no more likely or plausible than a universe lacking any arithmetic at all, so we must conclude that aesthetic presence is a further fact about the world. From all indications, this fact of experience cannot be accessed theoretically in any way, and can actually be productively modeled as 'that which is the exact opposite of theory' (information, math, representation). Where arithmetic truths are generic and universal, aesthetic presence is proprietary and uniquely local. Aesthetic presentations are concrete rather than abstract, participatory rather than aloof and indirect. Thanks, Craig > > > > > ... -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to email@example.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.