Dear Bruno, when you wrote: *"...arithmetic ====> number's dreams =====> physics*

*OK? Physics is based on experience, but not on human one. * *And experiences are based on arithmetic/computer-science..."* for the 'unbiased reader ' you started to seem (pardon me!) "incoherent". That entire unfinishable series 'how an adult person can be atheist' seems overgrown and I wanted to put down my opinion, when Edgar cut me short with his remark that "first: we need an identification for whatever we call: god". Our semantics is premature and insufficient, based on that PARTIAL stuff we may know at all and formulating FINAL conclusions upon them. Ifelt some remark of yours agreeing with me (agnosticism). My idrentification for what many people call "god" is known to this list: "infinite complexity" - not better than anyone else's: it is MY belief. Just to continue MY opinion: whatever we experienc (think?) is HUMAN stuff, humanly experienced and thought within human logic, even if we refer to some universal machine 'logic' and 'experience': those are adjusted to our human ways of thinking. Respectfully John Mikes On Sat, Dec 28, 2013 at 4:30 AM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote: > > On 27 Dec 2013, at 16:34, Richard Ruquist wrote: > > Bruno, > > I have to say that basing reality on the first person experience (or > whatever) of humans > strikes me as being no different from basing wave collapse on human > consciousness. > > > I agree with you, but I don't do that. The fundamental theory is > elementary arithmetic. Experiences are explained by computer science > (mainly machine's self-reference and the modal nuances existing by > incompleteness). > > True: the physical reality comes from the experience, but this is based on > the FPI which relies on an objective domain, which comes from arithmetic, > not experience. So we have, roughly put: > > arithmetic ====> number's dreams =====> physics > > OK? Physics is based on experience, but not on human one. And experiences > are based on arithmetic/computer-science. > > Bruno > > > > Sorry for a naive question but that seems tio be my role on this list. > Richard > > > On Fri, Dec 27, 2013 at 10:12 AM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote: > >> >> On 24 Dec 2013, at 19:39, John Clark wrote: >> >> On Tue, Dec 24, 2013 at 4:04 AM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote: >> >>> >> He did answer and did it correctly, >>>> >>> >>> > I somehow missed that post. What number did Bruno give? >>> >>> I quote myself: >>> >>> >>> That's a great answer but unfortunately it's NOT a answer to the >>> question John Clark asked, the question never asked anything about "the 3p >>> view", it was never mentioned. So John Clark will repeat the question for a >>> fifth time: how many first person experiences viewed from their first >>> person points of view does Bruno Marchal believe exists on planet Earth >>> right now? >>> >>> >>> >1 (I already answered this, note) >>> >>> No you did not. >> >>> > from the 1-view, the 1-view is always unique. >>> >>> That's real nice, but it wasn't the question. >> >> How many unique integers are there in the first 7 billion integers? >> John Clark's answer: 7 billion. >> >> How many unique 1-views from 1-view are there on planet Earth right now? >> Bruno Marchal's answer: Bruno Marchal refuses to answer. >> >> >> I answered this two times already. The answer is 1. Not just right now. >> Always. The infinitely many 1-views are all unique from their 1-view. >> >> >> >> >>> > Can you explain why you ask? >>> >> >> Because Bruno Marchal claims to understand the difference between 1P and >> 3P and says that John Clark does not. And because Bruno Marchal said "the >> first person experiences viewed from their first person points of view" and >> it would greatly help John Clark understand what Bruno Marchal meant by >> this (assuming anything at all) if John Clark knew approximately how many >> first person experiences views from their first person points of view >> existed on planet Earth right now. >> It is a simple question, what is the number? >> >> >> In the 3-views on the 1-views, there are right now about 7.10^6 such >> human 1-view. >> In the 1-view there is only one, from her 1-view. >> >> OK? >> >> This explains the existence of the 1-indeterminacy. If I am duplicated >> iteratively ten times: the number of 3-1-views will grow exponentially, and >> after the 10th duplication, there 2^10 1-views. But assuming comp and the >> default hypotheses, each of the >> copies get one bit of information, at each duplication step (they write W >> or they wrote M, never both). All of them feel constantly unique, and the >> vast majority get a non computable history when iterating infinitely (or >> incompressible when iterating finitely a long enough time). >> >> You seem to have understood the point, and in a recent post to Jason you >> seem to assess steps 3, 4, 5, 6. >> >> So what about step 7? >> How do you predict "conceptually" the result of any physical experiences >> and experiments, when assuming a physical universe, and assuming it >> executes integrally (without ever stopping) a Universal Dovetailer? >> >> Bruno >> >> >> http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ >> >> >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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