On 28 Dec 2013, at 16:24, Jason Resch wrote:



On Dec 28, 2013, at 7:04 AM, "Edgar L. Owen" <edgaro...@att.net> wrote:

Jason,

Have you gotten to Part III of my book on Reality yet? It explains how all randomness is quantum, and it explains the source of that randomness is the lack of any governing deterministic equations when the mini-spacetimes that emerge from quantum events have be aligned due to linking at common events.


I have not, but my point is there is already a form of randomness we know of that does not need quarum mechanics, indeed quantum randomness itself may only be a special case of this new type of randomness (discovered by Bruno).


Well, thanks. Sometimes I credit Everett, but Everett still assumes physicalism and QM, and doesn't see that if comp is used (as it is used by him), then the comp phenomenology has to justify the wave itself. He has not seen that classical arithmetic implements already the 1-indeterminacy, without any use of QM. This I think is new indeed. It leads to a MW interpretation, made by the numbers, of arithmetic itself. The 1-indeterminacy is a classical cognitive phenomenon, but in Everett it is still only a quantum one. I discovered the 1-indeterminacy by looking at amoebas, and studying molecular biology, well before QM. QM will make me doubt of mechanism until I discovered Everett. Like many, I do have been brainwashed with the collapse. I certainly agree that Everett subjective indeterminacy is a particular (quantum) form of the comp first person indeterminacy. Not all Everettian agree with this, note, but most do. Formally it is not the same, as a classical self-duplication is not, a priori, a quantum superposition. They might become one when in front of the UD, but that is what needs more verification and tests.

Bruno





Jason

Separate spaces are dimensionally independent. When they merge via common dimensional events there can be no deterministic alignment thus randomness arises.....

Edgar

On Saturday, December 28, 2013 2:08:32 AM UTC-5, Jason wrote:



On Fri, Dec 27, 2013 at 11:40 PM, Edgar L. Owen <edga...@att.net> wrote: Replying to Liz and Jason in a new topic as they raised the important topic of the source of randomness that deserves a separate topic.

As I explain in my book on Reality, all randomness is quantum. There simply is no true classical level randomness.

Have you gotten to step 3 in the UDA yet? It explains how true randomness can emerge without assuming QM.

Jason

There is plenty of non-computability which is often mistaken for randomness but all true randomness at the classical level percolates up from the quantum level.

At the fundamental computational level all computations are exact. However the way space can emerge and be dimensionalized from these computations is random which is the source of all randomness. This quantum level randomness can either be damped out or amplified up to the Classical level depending on the information structures involved.

To use Liz's example of how do computers generate random numbers, they don't in themselves. As Jason points out they draw on sources of (quantum) randomness from the environment, but the code the computer itself uses contains no randomness as the whole point of digital devices is to completely submerge any source of randomness because that would pollute the code and/or data.

Of course eventually everything, including computers, is subject to randomness and fails....

Edgar




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