On 29 Dec 2013, at 00:28, Jesse Mazer wrote:
Jason Resch wrote:
"indeed quantum randomness itself may only be a special case of this
new type of randomness (discovered by Bruno)."
I don't think Bruno claims to have discovered the notion that there
can be first-person randomness even in a universe which is
deterministic from a third-person perspective (like a "universe"
defined by the universal dovetailer), he just integrates it into the
rest of his ideas in a novel way. The first person to discover this
idea may be Hugh Everett III, who is quoted in http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/qm-everett/#6
saying of his interpretation of QM that "the formal theory is
objectively continuous and causal, while subjectively discontinuous
and probabilistic" (this quote is from 1973, but I suspect one could
find quotes from his original 1957 thesis that explicitly or
implicitly suggest this idea of subjective randomness despite the
determinism of wavefunction evolution governed by the Schroedinger
equation).
OK. But Everett did not see that we get this from just self-
duplication, and that this entails we have a "many world"
interpretation of arithmetic, in which we have to justify the wave and
physics. He still has to assume QM to have its sort of subjective
probability. The comp FPI is conceptually more general, as it does not
assume any physics at all. Everett indeterminacy can be seen as a
particular case of FPI, if we assume the wave and if we reify it for
consciousness (what UDA) prevents us to do.
Bruno
Jesse
On Sat, Dec 28, 2013 at 10:24 AM, Jason Resch <[email protected]>
wrote:
On Dec 28, 2013, at 7:04 AM, "Edgar L. Owen" <[email protected]>
wrote:
Jason,
Have you gotten to Part III of my book on Reality yet? It explains
how all randomness is quantum, and it explains the source of that
randomness is the lack of any governing deterministic equations
when the mini-spacetimes that emerge from quantum events have be
aligned due to linking at common events.
I have not, but my point is there is already a form of randomness we
know of that does not need quarum mechanics, indeed quantum
randomness itself may only be a special case of this new type of
randomness (discovered by Bruno).
Jason
Separate spaces are dimensionally independent. When they merge via
common dimensional events there can be no deterministic alignment
thus randomness arises.....
Edgar
On Saturday, December 28, 2013 2:08:32 AM UTC-5, Jason wrote:
On Fri, Dec 27, 2013 at 11:40 PM, Edgar L. Owen <[email protected]>
wrote:
Replying to Liz and Jason in a new topic as they raised the
important topic of the source of randomness that deserves a
separate topic.
As I explain in my book on Reality, all randomness is quantum.
There simply is no true classical level randomness.
Have you gotten to step 3 in the UDA yet? It explains how true
randomness can emerge without assuming QM.
Jason
There is plenty of non-computability which is often mistaken for
randomness but all true randomness at the classical level
percolates up from the quantum level.
At the fundamental computational level all computations are exact.
However the way space can emerge and be dimensionalized from these
computations is random which is the source of all randomness. This
quantum level randomness can either be damped out or amplified up
to the Classical level depending on the information structures
involved.
To use Liz's example of how do computers generate random numbers,
they don't in themselves. As Jason points out they draw on sources
of (quantum) randomness from the environment, but the code the
computer itself uses contains no randomness as the whole point of
digital devices is to completely submerge any source of randomness
because that would pollute the code and/or data.
Of course eventually everything, including computers, is subject to
randomness and fails....
Edgar
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