On 29 Dec 2013, at 00:28, Jesse Mazer wrote:

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Jason Resch wrote:"indeed quantum randomness itself may only be a special case of thisnew type of randomness (discovered by Bruno)."I don't think Bruno claims to have discovered the notion that therecan be first-person randomness even in a universe which isdeterministic from a third-person perspective (like a "universe"defined by the universal dovetailer), he just integrates it into therest of his ideas in a novel way. The first person to discover thisidea may be Hugh Everett III, who is quoted in http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/qm-everett/#6saying of his interpretation of QM that "the formal theory isobjectively continuous and causal, while subjectively discontinuousand probabilistic" (this quote is from 1973, but I suspect one couldfind quotes from his original 1957 thesis that explicitly orimplicitly suggest this idea of subjective randomness despite thedeterminism of wavefunction evolution governed by the Schroedingerequation).

`OK. But Everett did not see that we get this from just self-`

`duplication, and that this entails we have a "many world"`

`interpretation of arithmetic, in which we have to justify the wave and`

`physics. He still has to assume QM to have its sort of subjective`

`probability. The comp FPI is conceptually more general, as it does not`

`assume any physics at all. Everett indeterminacy can be seen as a`

`particular case of FPI, if we assume the wave and if we reify it for`

`consciousness (what UDA) prevents us to do.`

Bruno

JesseOn Sat, Dec 28, 2013 at 10:24 AM, Jason Resch <jasonre...@gmail.com>wrote:On Dec 28, 2013, at 7:04 AM, "Edgar L. Owen" <edgaro...@att.net>wrote:Jason,Have you gotten to Part III of my book on Reality yet? It explainshow all randomness is quantum, and it explains the source of thatrandomness is the lack of any governing deterministic equationswhen the mini-spacetimes that emerge from quantum events have bealigned due to linking at common events.I have not, but my point is there is already a form of randomness weknow of that does not need quarum mechanics, indeed quantumrandomness itself may only be a special case of this new type ofrandomness (discovered by Bruno).JasonSeparate spaces are dimensionally independent. When they merge viacommon dimensional events there can be no deterministic alignmentthus randomness arises.....Edgar On Saturday, December 28, 2013 2:08:32 AM UTC-5, Jason wrote:On Fri, Dec 27, 2013 at 11:40 PM, Edgar L. Owen <edga...@att.net>wrote:Replying to Liz and Jason in a new topic as they raised theimportant topic of the source of randomness that deserves aseparate topic.As I explain in my book on Reality, all randomness is quantum.There simply is no true classical level randomness.Have you gotten to step 3 in the UDA yet? It explains how truerandomness can emerge without assuming QM.JasonThere is plenty of non-computability which is often mistaken forrandomness but all true randomness at the classical levelpercolates up from the quantum level.At the fundamental computational level all computations are exact.However the way space can emerge and be dimensionalized from thesecomputations is random which is the source of all randomness. Thisquantum level randomness can either be damped out or amplified upto the Classical level depending on the information structuresinvolved.To use Liz's example of how do computers generate random numbers,they don't in themselves. As Jason points out they draw on sourcesof (quantum) randomness from the environment, but the code thecomputer itself uses contains no randomness as the whole point ofdigital devices is to completely submerge any source of randomnessbecause that would pollute the code and/or data.Of course eventually everything, including computers, is subject torandomness and fails....Edgar --You received this message because you are subscribed to the GoogleGroups "Everything List" group.To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,send an email to everything-li...@googlegroups.com.To post to this group, send email to everyth...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. --You received this message because you are subscribed to the GoogleGroups "Everything List" group.To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.To post to this group, send email to everything-l...@googlegroups.com.Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.--You received this message because you are subscribed to the GoogleGroups "Everything List" group.To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. --You received this message because you are subscribed to the GoogleGroups "Everything List" group.To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.

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