On 29 Dec 2013, at 02:26, Edgar L. Owen wrote:

## Advertising

Stephen,In a sense that's correct, they are actions and the actions are thecomputations, but they aren't physical, at least in the usual sense.

Computations are not physical. I agree. They are arithmetical notion.

`But I can't understand what is meant by "actions" are computation, or`

`"reality" computes, etc.`

`I have the feeling that you are using the term "computation" in some`

`non standard sense.`

This is closely related to the idea that 'everything is itsinformation only' which I cover in Part V of my book. We couldequally say that 'everything is its computation only, and thecomputation is the thing'.I have no problem with that, it's a good way to express it.....

`I am not sure. Stephen has already defended the idea that a physical`

`object simulates itself, based on a similar confusion. That does not`

`make sense if we use the terms computation or emulations (exact`

`simulations) with their standard definition in math.`

`The notion of physical computation is worse. It is easy to believe`

`that it exists, like physical computer and brains exist, but it is a`

`hell of a difficulty to define them, and even more so if we want`

`physical computation to be defined without using the mathematical`

`notion of computation.`

Bruno

EdgarOn Saturday, December 28, 2013 8:03:50 PM UTC-5, Stephen Paul Kingwrote:Dear Edgar,Have you considered the possibility that the physical actions ofmatter and energy in the universe *ARE* the computations? If so,what problem did you have with this idea?On Sat, Dec 28, 2013 at 8:00 PM, Edgar L. Owen <edga...@att.net>wrote:Brent,What we need to understand here is that the actual equations ofreality math that compute reality DO produce exact results. Theyhave to because events actually happen. But the human math equationsof decoherence etc. only produce probabilistic results. This is agood example of how reality math and human math are different. TheOmnes/Everett interpretations mistakenly apply only to the humanequations which are just descriptions, not actuators. E.g. Everettassumes that the human quantum equations somehow calculate realitybut they don't, and therefore he falsely assumes an interpretationof the human math equations has something to do with reality but itdoesn't. Therefore they have nothing to do with actual reality andin particular MWI doesn't apply to the actual math of reality andthus doesn't apply to actual reality.Edgar On Saturday, December 28, 2013 7:33:20 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: On 12/28/2013 4:25 PM, Edgar L. Owen wrote: > Brent, >> You are implying there is some difficulty in calculating specificdecoherence results> yet the people who are performing experiments in decoherence haveno such problem in> calculating them with no reference at all to either of yourinterpretations or choosing> between them... The math works just fine in our single world andproduces predictable> results...But it produces probabilities. And the experiments confirm that themeasured values arerandom with the distribution predicted. But each measurement onlyproduces one of theprobable values. So the question is how do you get from theprobabilities, which is whatQM+decoherence predicts, to actual realized unique values? Omnesjust says what do youexpect QM is a probabilistic theory. Everett says they all happenevery time withdifferent values and we 'happen' every time as observers withcorrelated experiences.What do you say? Brent --You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic inthe Google Groups "Everything List" group.To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/everything-list/1NWmK1IeadI/unsubscribe.To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email toeverything-li...@googlegroups.com.To post to this group, send email to everyth...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups ... --You received this message because you are subscribed to the GoogleGroups "Everything List" group.To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.

http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.