On 1/7/2014 7:19 AM, John Clark wrote:

On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 2:36 PM, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net<mailto:meeke...@verizon.net>> wrote:## Advertising

> Bell derived his inequality assuming QM with collapseNo he did not, Bell makes no such assumption or interpretation, in fact not one wordabout Quantum Mechanics is needed in his entire derivation. None zero zilch goose egg.

`True. But he assumes definite measurment values at each detector. In comparing to a QM`

`prediction that assumes that the superposition produced at the source for an EPR vanishes`

`at the measurement, aka "collapse of the wave function. Maybe that's what you're calling`

`"realism", but if it is it is already contrary to MWI which never produces a definite value.`

`I think the terms "realism" and "local" need some explication. For example many`

`physicists consider time symmetric interactions as "local" because there are no direct`

`spacelike interactions. That's apparently how the Wikipedia author of the page on`

`interpretations of QM took it and I know that's how Vic Stenger thinks of it - even though`

`he recognizes that it results in indirect spacelike influences. Similarly, I don't think`

`it's clear what "realism" means. Does it mean single definite values for a measurement,`

`or only the appearance to the experimenter of a single value?`

Brent

And that is why even if Quantum Mechanics turns out to be wrong and is succeeded with anewer and better theory it would still be true that if things are realistic and localthen Bell's inequality can NEVER BE VIOLATED, provided that high school algebra andtrigonometry are valid. And that is exactly why the experimental discovery that Bell'sinequality WAS VIOLATED was so fundamental and profound.John K Clark --You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "EverythingList" group.To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email toeverything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.

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